The S&W Perfected Target Pistol explained...

[model3sw]

Questions for people who have such models and shoot them:

Did you shot high velocity 22 LR? How about Copper plated?

I did not shoot mine yet. I expect (hope) it will work fine with CCI Standard Velocity 40 gr. which are lead. But it would be super cool to also work with high velocity plated bullets. Is there a risk to damage the gun? Obviously I do not want to risk.

I stick to the standard velocity lead .22 LR, with or without the Olympic barrel. With the Olympic barrel it's sometimes a chore to seat the bullet into the rifling with the lead projectile as it is but cannot reason that standard velocity copper jacketed could hurt it.

I never ventured to try anything but the standard velocity .22LR simply because of the age and value. That goes for my 1891s right through to the Straightline (only fired it once) and even my pre-war K-22s.

I have one old 1949 ship date K22 that I and all my children and my grandson have put through it any type of .22 LR ammo including the higher power with no ill effects after 40+ years.

In my 41s and 46s only Standard Velocity for reliable function.

Don't listen to those who recommend you never clean a .22 LR barrel. I always clean my .22 LR barrels. Usually after 50 rounds a brass brush with Rem-oil (or equivalent) followed a few patches.

 

[Cyrano]

In the early 1950s, I shot on a college pistol team with a guy who had a Perfected, I don't remember which model. He didn't use it for competition; he had a Colt Officer's Model Match for that. We shot the Perfected some on the range. He said it had long headspace; it had been stretched somehow, probably by high speed 22 loads. You had to make sure the base of the cartridge was back against the frame. If the round were fully chambered, and fired, the base of the cartridge would be blown back and often stretched beyond the point of failure and the base of the cartridge would blow out. I think I stilll have one of those blown cases somewhere. It was probably due to shooting high speed loads in an old gun. If you look at the locking arrangements of the Perfeced, the metal-to-metal area is pretty small, and it could easily stretch. I certainly wouldn't shoot high speeed 22s in one.

 

[mrcvs]

BTT for fresh eyes. This was such a good read the first time around...

 

[ol777gunnerz]

2nd Model Barrels

S&W did run out of a few of the 1st Model of 91 barrels, at least in nickel 8 inch & blued 6 inch. I own a 2nd model [lettered] all matching number in nickel with an 8 inch barrel with a single line address, I also know of another guy who has one the same as mine & serial number 3201, mine is 3202 & shipped about one yr. earlier than his, & to a different company. I also know a Forum member who recently sold his 6 inch blued 2nd model with the single line address. I would assume that single line address barreled 2nd models are scarce & probably no one will ever know how many were made for what I would assume were special order? Mine is shown above my 8 inch 1st model which is blued.

 

[RubEric]

My single shot:

 

[6string]

John,
An excellent essay!
Anyone interested in target pistols of this era should consider reading
-Die Scheibenpistole (yes, it's 100% German) by Bruno Brukner and Otto Halfmann.
- Alte Scheibenwaffen vol. 3 by Jesse Thompson, et al (in English!)

There is considerable information on the European target pistols such as by Üdo Anschutz, Stotzer, Widmer, and Rudolf Hämmerli, plus dozens more.
Objectively speaking, the S&W Perfected was stuck between a rock and a hard place. It offered neither the firepower of a revolver nor the refined set "hair" trigger, micrometer sights, & fitted grip of a European free pistol. In fact, Julian Hatcher adresses this in some detail in his Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers.

Nonetheless, the S&W is a remarkable arm. If one was strongly inclined towards the grip shape and trigger, it would likely still serve well in a slow fire match.
I would love to machine rest one at 50 yds with some Lapua Pistol King ammo!

 

[mrcvs]

This from Roy Jinks--followed by a remark to the effect there's a lot more (research) to be done: "This model after serial number 9548 was available with a special barrel which is called the Olympic barrel. This barrel is designed in such a manner that the bullet must be forced into the rifling. The purpose of the Olympic barrel was to eliminate any misalignment that the bullet would have before engaging the rifling. This type of barrel improved the accuracy slightly over our standard barrel. These barrels were originally designed for the United States Olympic Team of 1908. The total production (regular production, I reckon) of Olympic barrels is 2,093 units. They were also supplied on special request and are found throughout the production series as replacement barrels."

I wonder if the purchaser of this one ever figured out that the serial number of 6666 is outside the range of Olympic barreled guns, these being after 9548?

RARE Smith & Wesson S&W 3rd Model Perfected, Olympic Chamber Single Shot, Blue 10" Top Break Target Pistol, Letter & Holster 1914 C&R | Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments

 

[rct269]

I wonder if the purchaser of this one ever figured out that the serial number of 6666 is outside the range of Olympic barreled guns, these being after 9548?

RARE Smith & Wesson S&W 3rd Model Perfected, Olympic Chamber Single Shot, Blue 10" Top Break Target Pistol, Letter & Holster 1914 C&R | Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments

I reckon it's pretty much a lead pipe cinch notice has been taken #6666 is outside the range of those after 9548. But before we make anything of that, there are other facts of merit to be considered----all of which might be considered appropriate responses to the question "So what?"

Here's some of them------not necessarily in order of importance:

Roy's first conclusion following his discovery of what we might call the 9548 story-----or at least the first chapters was that there were no Olympic Models made AFTER 9548.

Concurrent with that thought was this one: There's a lot more work, investigation to be done---or words to that effect. It's similarly noteworthy he said the same thing after he changed his mind and decided most ALL of them were made AFTER 9548. And it's not that he can't make up his mind, it's that he's a historian doing his thing----digging up heretofore little or unknown facts and trying to make an ACCURATE account of what happened---and when.

Another thing worth remembering is he noted there were Olympic Models made outside THE period on special order---and never mind what THE period was. (Roy didn't say that last part---I did.)

Another thing he said, and this is my favorite---no matter what you're trying to explain, "They (S&W) would do anything anybody would pay them to do." (I'll never forget the first time he told me that. I'd asked him if they ever made a 3rd Model Single Shot in .22 Short----and he came back with that. After I'd had time to think about that----and the fact neither he nor anybody else knows, or will ever know what they did or didn't do at any given time concerning any given thing, I decided that was a good answer. It wasn't the answer I wanted, but it was the only valid one I was going to get.

And like that-------------

Ralph Tremaine

 

[mrcvs]

Thank you, Ralph.

So it seems to me that the majority of Olympic barrels occur after serial number 9548, but there can be exceptions. This seems like very dangerous territory to me. You are allowing a subjective measurement, undocumented, to determine if one of these pistols should carry a hefty premium. A little crud in the barrel and it might seem that it was difficult to insert a round. It's like magic--a dirty barrel warrants a premium!

If you think this is more cut and dry than it seems, you wouldn't believe the number of times I cannot get a straight answer over the phone or by e-mail whether or not a Triple Lock chambered in .455 Webley has been opened up to .45 Colt--and, in this case, a revolver bored out would allow for a .45 Colt round to be easily inserted and one remaining in .455 Webley would cause the .45 Colt round to stick out by a third.

I was reading some posts with regards to these pistols and I, specifically, commented that I "thought" I had seen a letter that Roy wrote that stated a certain pistol contained an Olympic chambered barrel. I think the vast majority do not. I'm wondering, assuming my memory was even correct at that time, if that may have been included in that specific letter as it was annotated on the letter request form by the owner at the time a factory letter was requested?

 

[rct269]

Yes, the majority of Olympic Models occur in the 3rd Model series after #9548-------and there are exceptions.

There's nothing subjective nor undocumented about the measurement of the chamber/throat of an Olympic Model. I typically say an unseated cartridge protrudes .130" from an early barrel, .105" from a later barrel. My actual measurements were .132" and .105". I decided .132" was an erroneous measurement---only because a difference of .027" seemed highly unlikely compared to .025". And that said, any such measurement is going to vary dependent upon the configuration of the nose of the bullet----the difference will remain constant.

As to the difference in effort required to seat a cartridge in an Olympic barrel vs. a dirty barrel, let's just say I applaud your imagination. The shooters of Olympic Models routinely used "pushers" (wooden tools) to seat the cartridge so as to avoid wear and tear on their thumbs. This from Joe Miller (USRA Historian).

There was a significant premium attached to an Olympic Model back in the good old days when they were thought to be scarce. That pretty much evaporated when it was discovered almost a third of them were thought to be Olympics.

And if a particular unit was noted as an Olympic Model in a letter, it's because Roy had prior knowledge about that particular item. There are no known production records to tell the tale, and there's no way to tell the difference sitting and staring at the gun in your hands----only by attempting to seat a cartridge.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[model3sw]

Yes, the majority of Olympic Models occur in the 3rd Model series after #9548-------and there are exceptions.

There's nothing subjective nor undocumented about the measurement of the chamber/throat of an Olympic Model. I typically say an unseated cartridge protrudes .130" from an early barrel, .105" from a later barrel. My actual measurements were .132" and .105". I decided .132" was an erroneous measurement---only because a difference of .027" seemed highly unlikely compared to .025". And that said, any such measurement is going to vary dependent upon the configuration of the nose of the bullet----the difference will remain constant.

As to the difference in effort required to seat a cartridge in an Olympic barrel vs. a dirty barrel, let's just say I applaud your imagination. The shooters of Olympic Models routinely used "pushers" (wooden tools) to seat the cartridge so as to avoid wear and tear on their thumbs. This from Joe Miller (USRA Historian).

There was a significant premium attached to an Olympic Model back in the good old days when they were thought to be scarce. That pretty much evaporated when it was discovered almost a third of them were thought to be Olympics.

And if a particular unit was noted as an Olympic Model in a letter, it's because Roy had prior knowledge about that particular item. There are no known production records to tell the tale, and there's no way to tell the difference sitting and staring at the gun in your hands----only by attempting to seat a cartridge.

Ralph Tremaine

Ralph, for the record I can attest to:

716x is NOT a Olympic barrel. Side note: this is a very interesting SS but discussion for another day, it has King sights, a club number 0257 barrel with 2 notches machined on the bottom side of the barrel. One notch is 1" from crown, the other apx. 1.5" forward of the pivot joint. Perhaps for a scope mount or weights ? Has the original matching latch and Roper stocks. I don't see any Pope markings is which I had hoped for when I purchased it a few decades ago. The front sight it a back-cut USRA type, prominently stamped "King", the rear sight is a outlined square notch. Also, the Ropers ... in the extension area past the frame is meticulously hollowed out. Seems as though it may have had a weight or weights inside the stocks. Shows evidence of "something" having been in that hollowed area. Hammer seems to be a rather short throw, especially in Double action.

739x is NOT a Olympic barrel

842x is NOT a Olympic barrel.

1002x "is" a Olympic barrel

1107x "is" a Olympic barrel.

Hope this brings some clarity. Sal Raimondi, Sr.