The Shootist
- Thread starter imjin138
- Start date
well im glad to see so many people are giving the duke a free passbut he was still a chickenhawk
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Amen. I've seen 48+ year olds in Iraq running combat missions everyday. I've also seen MANY men with children (several with more than 5) going in harm's way. All they lacked was the high dollar salary of a "star".
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Question for you old vets, or anyone else. I could be wrong, but does anyone here seriously belive that had the duke fought all sources just to go fight, that any branch of the service at that time would have let him?
I really dont! I dont belive this country would have taken the chance of him getting killed in combat because he was so high profile at the time that it would have demoralised the country!
I am sure he must have knew that too. Sure, they would have used him for propaganda purpose,s like they did clark gable. Another thought. Name me just one already movie star that was killed in combat! I dont belive you can.
I really dont! I dont belive this country would have taken the chance of him getting killed in combat because he was so high profile at the time that it would have demoralised the country!
I am sure he must have knew that too. Sure, they would have used him for propaganda purpose,s like they did clark gable. Another thought. Name me just one already movie star that was killed in combat! I dont belive you can.
OP
imjin138
US Veteran
You know, I am at the point where I am sorry I even started this thread.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
feral - Both Jimmy Stewart and Clark Gable were much bigger stars than John Wayne at the time, and both of them went in harm's way. Gable was a cameraman aboard a plane which was struck by enemy fire, killing one of the crew, while Stewart piloted bombers over Germany.
I think what's irksome about John Wayne's lack of service is that later he became such a patriotic icon and was more than happy to wear the uniform as long as he got a big check and only had to face blanks.
That said, I still love his movies. If I'm ever feeling low I can find Rio Bravo or Big Jake on the tube somewhere and its like a visit from an old friend.
I think what's irksome about John Wayne's lack of service is that later he became such a patriotic icon and was more than happy to wear the uniform as long as he got a big check and only had to face blanks.
That said, I still love his movies. If I'm ever feeling low I can find Rio Bravo or Big Jake on the tube somewhere and its like a visit from an old friend.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I know someone is going to remind me of jimmy stewart. Yes that is the one exception. Even then, stewart was a pilot for a long time before the war. James Stewart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No way would the air corp train someone 35 years old like wayne to be a pilot if they already werent.
That didnt take long, you posted while I wrote. Anyway I stand corrected! I guess we wore this out. I never met wayne, but jimmy stewart once bought my lunch when I was a studio guard when he made "The rare breed". A reel gentilman! (Couldnt help that, I am a BAD speller ya know!)
No way would the air corp train someone 35 years old like wayne to be a pilot if they already werent.
That didnt take long, you posted while I wrote. Anyway I stand corrected! I guess we wore this out. I never met wayne, but jimmy stewart once bought my lunch when I was a studio guard when he made "The rare breed". A reel gentilman! (Couldnt help that, I am a BAD speller ya know!)
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MaximumLawman
Member
It's entertainment. No need to make it more than it is. People generally don't die as quick or as "classy" as they do in the movies after being shot with a pistol.
Frank237
Absent Comrade
No lie! We have come to a sorry point when even John Wayne gets pot shots from someone behind a keyboard. Wonder if any of you nay sayers would have the balls to tell him the same to his face?? I'd bet not.
FN in MT
Whenever I here the John Wayne debate I think of my dad and almost laugh. Dad was a Vet of both WW2 and Korea and had a slight grudge against The Duke. Not because Wayne didn't fight in WW2 but because somehow Wayne allegedly bought a surplus mine sweeper after WW2, turned it into his private fishing boat, then never paid the Government for it.
I have no idea where dad got the story or if the story is even true, but dad firmly believed it. ;-D He felt a man should pay their debts and Wayne had not paid for the boat.
Henry Fonda was in the Pacific Theater during WW2 and I think he was older than Wayne.
I have no idea where dad got the story or if the story is even true, but dad firmly believed it. ;-D He felt a man should pay their debts and Wayne had not paid for the boat.
Henry Fonda was in the Pacific Theater during WW2 and I think he was older than Wayne.
If Duke's back was in that kind of shape, I seriously doubt he could have served. My father was just in supply on a USAAF base and they drummed him out when they found that he had arthritis, in 1944.
Let's see...Oliver Stone or John Wayne....... which one has done the most damage to this nation?
you bet wrong he was just a man and not much of one to me
Walter Rego
Member
I don't know if the story about the mine sweeper is true or not but after Wayne died the boat was sold and has been used for private charters ever since. It is named The Wild Goose. In fact I went out to Catalina Island on it with crew of Playboy Bunnies in 1983, and went aboard for a little private tour in Newport Harbor just last year. It's a beautiful craft and well maintained.
semperfi71
US Veteran
It was a Marine who once said of a Medal of Honor winner who otherwise turned out to be a first class jerk.
"Praise the deed and not the man."
I suspect that John Wayne could have been a "draft-dodger". I suspect that he could have not served due to health issues and "Hollywood Bosses."
I wasn't privy to anything that happened then. I just don't know.
I do know I have met combat Vets who despised John Wayne and others who seemed to like him.
I do know that literally thousands of men, even some from foreign shores, have aspired to be like the movie characters John Wayne portrayed. And a lot of women as well. Very few succeeded but they were better off than styling themselves after Alan Alda, or Johnny Depp.
When I was in the Marines [1971/1975] it was popular to hear from a D.I or infantry troop leader; "Who do you think you are? John Wayne?", this when us, the lowly boots/trainees were trying to look a bit more "salty" or less "boot".
In the Army the C-Rat can opener was called a "P-38". In the Marines it was a "John Wayne" can opener.
When somebody did something "heroic" it was spoke of as; "He went and did a John Wayne."
I consider John Wayne to be the modern American equivelant of Beowulf. A mythical man who is of such heroic porportion that many others attempt to emulate him.
I am glad this thread about the "Shootist" was started.
I knew when I went to see the movie it was to be his last. I just felt it. I left sad. I later was proven right.
My favorite J.W. western movie is the "Searchers". Second is "Big Jake".
I do consider a few other western actors as perhaps sometimes better in some of their films, such as Jimmy Stewart, or Alan Ladd in "Shane". But overall J.W. took the genre of westerns to a high level.
I have read whereby Tom Selleck supposedly said something to the effect that it was hard to make a western now days because John Wayne will always be tough to beat.
I can think of actors who served in real wars and others who did not. Most importantly I can think of actors who created a role, if even for one movie, that was worth watching, and others who never were worth watching in any role [this includes women].
I'll always watch John Wayne and enjoy the fantasy.
"Praise the deed and not the man."
I suspect that John Wayne could have been a "draft-dodger". I suspect that he could have not served due to health issues and "Hollywood Bosses."
I wasn't privy to anything that happened then. I just don't know.
I do know I have met combat Vets who despised John Wayne and others who seemed to like him.
I do know that literally thousands of men, even some from foreign shores, have aspired to be like the movie characters John Wayne portrayed. And a lot of women as well. Very few succeeded but they were better off than styling themselves after Alan Alda, or Johnny Depp.
When I was in the Marines [1971/1975] it was popular to hear from a D.I or infantry troop leader; "Who do you think you are? John Wayne?", this when us, the lowly boots/trainees were trying to look a bit more "salty" or less "boot".
In the Army the C-Rat can opener was called a "P-38". In the Marines it was a "John Wayne" can opener.
When somebody did something "heroic" it was spoke of as; "He went and did a John Wayne."
I consider John Wayne to be the modern American equivelant of Beowulf. A mythical man who is of such heroic porportion that many others attempt to emulate him.
I am glad this thread about the "Shootist" was started.
I knew when I went to see the movie it was to be his last. I just felt it. I left sad. I later was proven right.
My favorite J.W. western movie is the "Searchers". Second is "Big Jake".
I do consider a few other western actors as perhaps sometimes better in some of their films, such as Jimmy Stewart, or Alan Ladd in "Shane". But overall J.W. took the genre of westerns to a high level.
I have read whereby Tom Selleck supposedly said something to the effect that it was hard to make a western now days because John Wayne will always be tough to beat.
I can think of actors who served in real wars and others who did not. Most importantly I can think of actors who created a role, if even for one movie, that was worth watching, and others who never were worth watching in any role [this includes women].
I'll always watch John Wayne and enjoy the fantasy.
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Joeygun
Member
The Shootist is a great movie and I will now have to read the book.
I grew up loving John Wayne movies. My father had a John Wayne coffee mug "Tall in the Saddle" and some commerative John Wayne ammunition boxes displayed on top of his gun cabinets. Safes weren't invented yet and my parent's house guests never batted an eye...heck, some were impressed.
Anyhoot, I can't hold a grudge against him, because I'll never know the truth about his reasons for not serving. (That being said I never saw combat even though I served, but I can appreciate and respect the feelings of a combat soldier on the matter). I will say that he was and is a hero from my childhood, that as a character he provided some life lessons for a young man to admire....like in the Sands of Iwo Jima..."hell yeah I am scared" or something to that effect, and he still carried out, providing purose, direction, and motivation to the Marines that followed Sgt. Stryker.
Tom Selleck does a great job and I understand he is super pro-gun and perhaps one of our most articulate and famous spokespersons as gun owners. With that being said he is from a different era and John Wayne is and will always be larger than life and so be it. Ultimately, in his afterlife he may or may not regret how things turned out regarding him not serving.....he has to sleep with that, not me.
I grew up loving John Wayne movies. My father had a John Wayne coffee mug "Tall in the Saddle" and some commerative John Wayne ammunition boxes displayed on top of his gun cabinets. Safes weren't invented yet and my parent's house guests never batted an eye...heck, some were impressed.
Anyhoot, I can't hold a grudge against him, because I'll never know the truth about his reasons for not serving. (That being said I never saw combat even though I served, but I can appreciate and respect the feelings of a combat soldier on the matter). I will say that he was and is a hero from my childhood, that as a character he provided some life lessons for a young man to admire....like in the Sands of Iwo Jima..."hell yeah I am scared" or something to that effect, and he still carried out, providing purose, direction, and motivation to the Marines that followed Sgt. Stryker.
Tom Selleck does a great job and I understand he is super pro-gun and perhaps one of our most articulate and famous spokespersons as gun owners. With that being said he is from a different era and John Wayne is and will always be larger than life and so be it. Ultimately, in his afterlife he may or may not regret how things turned out regarding him not serving.....he has to sleep with that, not me.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
In Iwo jima, it ends with striker at the end of the battle saying, "I never felt better in my life" just then a jap pops up out of a hole and shoots him! I wasnt in either and wont judge. I had a close friend that saw a lot of action in world war two, a marine. I remember him telling me "It seemed to make no difference how bad or good of a solider you were. He said sometimes the best solider would get killed along side of the worst in the outfit. Lou, who I am talking about had the whitest hair you ever saw. He told me it turned white overnight. He and his buddys were wadeing a river and the japs were waiting for them under water breathing through hollow bamboo or whatever. The japs all had knifes and stabbed many of them. He said thats how his hair turned so white!
Faulkner
Member
I appreciate the veterans who have served our country more than you can ever know. But, frankly, veterans don't own the spirit of patriotism. He may not have served in the military, but I think the Duke was a patriot none the less.
Lots of interesting myths about John Wayne.
Regarding whether he paid the government for the Wild Goose; he did not. He bought it from a prior owner who would have been the one to buy it from the government:
As far as him wanting / trying to get into the service, there's this:
And here's a very cogent discussion here:
The Straight Dope: Was John Wayne a draft dodger?
I recall having watched a show, possibly with Lucille Ball, and other old-school Hollywood types, talking about "the old days" and commenting on the situation talked about in the link above, wherein Wayne's career was just taking off and he was not yet solidly established. In fact, arguably, it was during the war years that his carreer really, finally took off.
Angel and the Badman showed the studios he could be a successful leading man, but it was not until the war movies that his career really took off. Bottom line - it was a business decision. Could there have been a little resentment about not getting into the Academy? Maybe, but I doubt it, considering how many of his military roles were naval ones, and he did buy the minesweeper!
My grandpa was 2-A deferred during the war, because he built Caterpillar tractors for the Seabees and Engineers to advance across the Pacific and Europe. He never got a lick of grief about it from his two brothers who fought in the war.
Regarding whether he paid the government for the Wild Goose; he did not. He bought it from a prior owner who would have been the one to buy it from the government:
As far as him wanting / trying to get into the service, there's this:
And here's a very cogent discussion here:
The Straight Dope: Was John Wayne a draft dodger?
I recall having watched a show, possibly with Lucille Ball, and other old-school Hollywood types, talking about "the old days" and commenting on the situation talked about in the link above, wherein Wayne's career was just taking off and he was not yet solidly established. In fact, arguably, it was during the war years that his carreer really, finally took off.
Angel and the Badman showed the studios he could be a successful leading man, but it was not until the war movies that his career really took off. Bottom line - it was a business decision. Could there have been a little resentment about not getting into the Academy? Maybe, but I doubt it, considering how many of his military roles were naval ones, and he did buy the minesweeper!
My grandpa was 2-A deferred during the war, because he built Caterpillar tractors for the Seabees and Engineers to advance across the Pacific and Europe. He never got a lick of grief about it from his two brothers who fought in the war.
OP
imjin138
US Veteran
I wasn't around back then so I don't know for sure why he didn't enlist, niether did Gregory Peck or Van Johnson. George Reeves did just as his career started and he stayed in for the duration and when he got out he played small roles in the movies and ended up playing Superman.
I am sure that happened to a lot of men who enlisted, they had good jobs or careers when they went in, some didn't come back and some of those who did found their career path passed them by.
Each man and women who enlists or does not enlist has to look inside themselves for the reason.
The other actor whose movies I really enjoy was probably underage when he enlisted and didn't become an actor until after the war. A lot of people don't like his movies either but I watch Audie Murphy movies all the time.
I am sure that happened to a lot of men who enlisted, they had good jobs or careers when they went in, some didn't come back and some of those who did found their career path passed them by.
Each man and women who enlists or does not enlist has to look inside themselves for the reason.
The other actor whose movies I really enjoy was probably underage when he enlisted and didn't become an actor until after the war. A lot of people don't like his movies either but I watch Audie Murphy movies all the time.
