Didn't read the NRA report, didja?
The Smith and Wesson Governor: Misfit or Misunderstood?
- Thread starter Gulfecho
- Start date
Didn't read the NRA report, didja?
686-380
Member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2013
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 705
It depends upon your goal(s)
Your context indicates you are focused upon lethal results.
My personal goals are, in order of priority: 1. De-escalate (talk) 2. Intimidate (draw weapon) 3. incapacitate (.410) 4. Terminate (.45LC).
The article indicates that the Hornady Triple Defense didn't expand in their tests...so what? If your goal is to kill, that's certainly pertinent. A pattern of .410 will produce several points of intense pain. Hopefully enough to stop an attacker.
My test here gives wide parameters for PDX1, Winchester 000 buck and Hornady Triple Defense.
Here are my visible results.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XmkoWAdnhQ[/ame]
Your context indicates you are focused upon lethal results.
My personal goals are, in order of priority: 1. De-escalate (talk) 2. Intimidate (draw weapon) 3. incapacitate (.410) 4. Terminate (.45LC).
The article indicates that the Hornady Triple Defense didn't expand in their tests...so what? If your goal is to kill, that's certainly pertinent. A pattern of .410 will produce several points of intense pain. Hopefully enough to stop an attacker.
My test here gives wide parameters for PDX1, Winchester 000 buck and Hornady Triple Defense.
Here are my visible results.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XmkoWAdnhQ[/ame]
Versatility can be a positive attribute or it can be meaningless. A Glock 19 can very effectively serve as a concealed carry, home defense as well as a duty/service weapon and you don't really make any compromises anywhere. I can see how that type of versatility can be very useful.
The Governor can simply fire three different types of ammunitions. How is that really beneficial?
It can't be pocket carried or concealed carried at all very easily, so that pretty much relegates it to home defense where it's size makes it impractical to have on your person at all times. I don't know of very many good EDC choices chambered in .410 or. 45 LC, so ammo compatibility is out and I would guess ammo cost, choices and availability aren't very good compared with more common and popular choices.
With .45 ACP, you have to factor in moonclips as another complication as well as potential failure point not to mention the negative effects of the over-sized cylinder. I think single action has no place on a defensive weapon and an exposed hammer is a possible detriment in entanglements.
The idea of deterring a home invader by inflicting pain is not a very sound tactic. I can fully understand not wanting to kill, but someone forcing their way into your home will often be drunk, on drugs or severly mentally ill. There is likely no reasoning with them nor any time to try and do so. Home invasions generally unfold extremely quickly. If the weapon is not on your person, you may not even be able to get to it. Are you going to leave your family to try and run and get it? Irregardless, you will want to stop them as quickly as possible. It's a bad idea to assume they will flee as soon as facing armed resistance or will cease their attack if they have been shot even if that is statistically occurs a majority of the time. Any gun will work in those circumstances and if you're playing those odd, why not just go with a small pistol you can have on you all the time? It is best to prepare by assuming you will be facing a determined attacker(s) that will not stop until you physically incapacitate them.
The Governor can simply fire three different types of ammunitions. How is that really beneficial?
It can't be pocket carried or concealed carried at all very easily, so that pretty much relegates it to home defense where it's size makes it impractical to have on your person at all times. I don't know of very many good EDC choices chambered in .410 or. 45 LC, so ammo compatibility is out and I would guess ammo cost, choices and availability aren't very good compared with more common and popular choices.
With .45 ACP, you have to factor in moonclips as another complication as well as potential failure point not to mention the negative effects of the over-sized cylinder. I think single action has no place on a defensive weapon and an exposed hammer is a possible detriment in entanglements.
The idea of deterring a home invader by inflicting pain is not a very sound tactic. I can fully understand not wanting to kill, but someone forcing their way into your home will often be drunk, on drugs or severly mentally ill. There is likely no reasoning with them nor any time to try and do so. Home invasions generally unfold extremely quickly. If the weapon is not on your person, you may not even be able to get to it. Are you going to leave your family to try and run and get it? Irregardless, you will want to stop them as quickly as possible. It's a bad idea to assume they will flee as soon as facing armed resistance or will cease their attack if they have been shot even if that is statistically occurs a majority of the time. Any gun will work in those circumstances and if you're playing those odd, why not just go with a small pistol you can have on you all the time? It is best to prepare by assuming you will be facing a determined attacker(s) that will not stop until you physically incapacitate them.
Intruder dropped with judge:
The Lessons Of The Oklahoma Pharmacy IncidentAmerican Handgunner | American Handgunner
Murder with .410 revolver:
Arrest made in connection with 2012 murder | Artesia Daily Press
Math used to prove effectiveness of governor:
How Effective Is A Hit From A Judge? | Shooting The Bull
Death by 410 revolver after it went through the guy's hand:
States United to Prevent Gun Violence | Handgun unintentionally discharged. Bullet goes through one man's hand, into another man's neck, killing him.
Accidental death with 410 handgun
12 dead, 22 wounded: 30 months of accidental shootings involving children in Pa. | PennLive.com
Killed intruder:
https://www.google.com/amp/denver.cbslocal.com/2011/02/03/make-my-day-shooter/amp/
Intruder uses birdshot (unsuccessfully) however wounds almost lethal. Birdshot not my choice though:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...an-shot-four-times-says-life-is-precious.html
410 derringer murder:
http://thecitizenonline.com/independence-murder-suicide-had-oxford-connection/
A reviewer that changed their mind about .410 ammo viability as self defense round with the trial and testing of Hornsby critical defense:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gunsamerica.com/blog/410-revolver-ammo-hornady-triple-defense/amp/
There I've done enough research in 10 minutes. I'm sure there's more but most articles don't mention the weapon used.
comiskeybum
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2015
- Messages
- 359
- Reaction score
- 277
I cant speak for everyone but m primary purchase reason was not home defense, but it does add to that same arsenal. My main purpose was hiking/camping.
Again, this conversation is getting old. The gun shoots projectiles that kill people, end of story. If someone chooses or not chooses to use it isnt really any of our business.
Again, this conversation is getting old. The gun shoots projectiles that kill people, end of story. If someone chooses or not chooses to use it isnt really any of our business.
Kentucky Shooter
Member
Most ridiculous thread I have encountered in quite some time.
You can find tests and "proof" to point out flaws in ANY platform, caliber, brand XYZ, ammunition, etc.....
Pick a gun you like, trust, and can shoot well with and let everyone else do the same. If thats a Glock, 1911, .380ACP, 9mm, .40, .45ACP, .44mag, revolver, single action, double action, or a S&W Governor so be it.
Now, that shouldnt be so hard should it?
You can find tests and "proof" to point out flaws in ANY platform, caliber, brand XYZ, ammunition, etc.....
Pick a gun you like, trust, and can shoot well with and let everyone else do the same. If thats a Glock, 1911, .380ACP, 9mm, .40, .45ACP, .44mag, revolver, single action, double action, or a S&W Governor so be it.
Now, that shouldnt be so hard should it?
Last edited:
It's suitability as a home defense weapon was the entire premise of the thread.
The OP asked for opinions on a public gun forum and he got them. Discussion and debate is pretty much the whole point of having a forum. If someone doesn't like what they are hearing or feels a particular thread has run its course, no one is forcing participation.
OP
Gulfecho
Member
Yah, a thread that received 230 responses is pretty ridiculous??
Pay special attention to the internet arm chair quarterbacks who have never ever fired a Governor. Afterall, they base their postings on information they regurgitate after formulating opinions based on lack of first hand experience. They read the writings of other, pick out the facts they like, and post.
Last edited:
If you had actually read my posts you'd know that I RECOMMEND .45 Colt in 4 posts.
Those who chose to buy a Governor seek validation. That's why this thread is so long. I post it's limitations, specifically with .410 for self defense. Challenging its efficacy is a personal insult to those who bought it, so uncomfortable are they with their decision.
Kentucky Shooter
Member
Yes, I think so when roughly 3/4 of the 230 responses are only arguing over subjective opinions that will obviously never be accepted by the opposing side. If a guy wants to defend his castle with an NAA mini revolver in .22LR or a Dirty Harry Model 29, hes fine to do it as far as I am concerned.
If a guy doesnt want a Governor, Glock 17, or a S&W 686, etc......then simply dont get one. But try to respect the decision of those who do.
And the .22LR is fine for home defense- After all, there is a documented example of a guy killing an elephant with a .22LR.
Last edited:
Instead of constantly hurling insults and making snide comments, how about respectfully explaining what new insight is to be discovered from shooting it.
My primary objections to the Governor as a home defense weapon have absolutely nothing to do with ballistics or shootability. I've already explained them, but perhaps it is extremely difficult to understand for those whose experience is limited to static range shooting, but they should still be a consideration nonetheless.
I own one, my wife and I both carry and shoot it often. It follows us around on our property during the summer months and resides in a drawer next to our sofa. We like it for what it is. I respect opinions from people who can offer advice from their own experiences.
If my lack of respect for people who post about things they never shot or owned bothers you then ignore them.
All you've done is state you own one. You have given absolutely no feedback about it whatsoever. I've at least tested and gave my opinions on this type of weapon in the context of handgun combatives.
So what do you have to offer?
I am captivated by this subject as it draws much controversy. I realize I am probably
However,
1) Do you feel it is a viable home defense weapon? Why?
Yes. We live in the country and my wife is not a very good shot with a handgun. She likes the fact it can shoot .410 ammo helping her hit what she is aiming at. Home defense here can mean protecting yourself from skunks, snakes, coyotes, feral dogs, etc as well as people. The revolver stays in a drawer next to the couch and is on my wifes hip when she is outside and I am not around.
2) What do you load it with? Specific rounds please.
It is usually always loaded full of .410 ammo.
3) Do you feel you would not rely upon it as a home defense weapon?
Why?
No, I would rely on it for home defense with .410 buck shot. I have seen what it would do at close range on small critters and wouldnt hesitate to use it in close encounters with bad people.
Personally, I believe it is viable. I load mine with Federal 000 Buck in front of 3 Lehigh Maximum Expansion rounds.
Thank you for your opinions.
Sid
My responses are posted under each of your questions.
OP
Gulfecho
Member
Gamecock: It is not an issue of validation, quite the contrary, a pronouncement of it's efficiency to dispatch an intruder at close range with the loads I've recommend. This is not a popularity contest. Those who don't see it that way are entitled to there opinion. I simply endeavored to induce debate on a firearm that has achieved much controversy since its inception due to poorly chosen ammo when the Taurus was first developed.
Kentucky Shooter
Member
He likes it.
His wife likes it.
They use it for outdoor hiking on their property and home defense.
Did he mention he likes it?
I haven't read anywhere where anyone is trying to claim the Governor is the perfect, end-all firearm for defense.
But if he's a satisfied owner, why does he need to offer anything else?
Last edited:
Well, normally I would say anyone is welcome to their opinion, but if someone makes disrespectful comments as he did in posts #188 and #199, I'm always going to call them out on it.
Kentucky Shooter
Member
No disrespect to anyone, you included. I've waded in where I don't belong.
I've definitely learned the Governor is one controversial piece!
I honestly wouldn't mind having one but I'm trying to downsize so I don't see it happening. Reminds me of the Savage 24 rifle I was considering a few months ago. That's an over under combination gun long discontinued that came in configurations such as .22lr or .22 mag paired with .410 or 20 gauge.
I decided against the Savage 24 because while it's trying to serve a duel role, its perfect for neither. If I have the need to carry a shotgun I have a closet full so I have covered about any situation I'll ever encounter and same for rifles, all sighted in and ready to go.
The Governor reminds me of the same scenario. Very few guns that try to serve multiple roles really succeed.
But I definitely support the right of anyone to buy and use what they want if they are willing to accept the pros and cons of their choices.
That's just my two cents.
Last edited:
