The Ultimate Pre War King Modified Target Guns

[bracebeemer]

I hope it’s alright to talk about a Colt in this thread but I wanted to compare and contrast the two finest and most expensive pre war target guns that money could buy, both with King Super Target modifications. The Colt is a Shooting Master from 1932 in 38 special. It was the most expensive target gun in the Colt lineup . It has the King Super Target rib with mirrored red post front sight and white outlined square notch rear sight. It is fitted with the King double cockeyed hammer and Lew Sanderson thumb rest grips. The S&W is a Triple Lock 44 fitter with the same King Super Target ventilated rib with the same front and rear sights as the Shooting Master. It is wearing a beautiful set of Walter Roper stocks shaped perfectly for a right hang shooter. The hammer and trigger are stock . The Shooting Master has a checkered trigger and backstrap while the S&W has a smooth trigger ant the checkered Roper stocks cover the back and forestrap . The Triple Lock has a 7 1/2” barrel while the Shooting Master has a 6” barrel. Either gun would most likely create quite a stir at the shooting range during the Great Depression. Bill

 

[Toyman]

Either gun would create a stir today because most shooters would not have any idea what you have. !

 

[rct269]

And speaking of Colts, Mr. Roper and his lads were into gussied up revolvers as well. Mine is an Officers Model 38 from October of 1935, treated to grips, sights, action job, and topped off with a WhiteX up front.

I took mine to my gunsmith for show and tell. He poked and prodded, oohed and awed, and then announced: "You know----I hate these (effing) Colts, but whoever did that action job REALLY knew what they were doing!"

Ralph Tremaine

 

[skilled]

Yes the full King treatment is a wonderful thing!

 

[RKmesa]

Yes the full King treatment is a wonderful thing!

...why yes...yes it is. Beautiful Guns guys!!!

From King Modern Sights Catalog No, 19 (from somewhere in the 1936-1938 range)



Notice that the KST guns were as or more expensive than the pre-war .357 Magnum...

... and the pricing if you sent your gun to them...




... and if you wanted a cockeyed hammer - it was another $8.50...




I don't own any of the Colts, but I do own several of the S&Ws.

K-22 Outdoorsman King Super Target





38/44 Outdoorsman King Super Target






I also have one post war 38 that has the KST...

 

[bengal fan]

I’m sure Mr King would be proud that there are still a few people who find his modified guns appealing.

Mr D.W. King

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Old_Cop]

Wonderful photos from all, the condition of the guns is remarkable.

 

[Bakebfr480]

Those Colts are nice but.........the cylinders spin the wrong way!

 

[skilled]

Part of my King collection

 

[crsides]

Part of my King collection









I have one of those red bead reflector base rifle sights on my M71 win. Love it.

 

[RKmesa]

I’m sure Mr King would be proud that there are still a few people who find his modified guns appealing.

Hey Paul,

Great collection of King paper... Can you tell me the years of the catalogs in the background from left to right? Also, was the Number 19 Catalog the first one that added the Super Target Ribs?

Thanks,

 

[Troystat]

Love those King Gun sight modified revolvers, the ones RK Mesa showed us are amazing. Just for fun you can see the building where his shop was on Google maps.

 

[bengal fan]

Hey Paul,

Great collection of King paper... Can you tell me the years of the catalogs in the background from left to right? Also, was the Number 19 Catalog the first one that added the Super Target Ribs?

Thanks,

Sadly, only one of my catalogs have a date. The blue catalog is dated December 1 1938. However the #19 catalog does have a penciled in date on the cover of 1939. I can not guarantee if that is accurate, but it makes sense. The Blue catalog dated 1938 & is the first catalog I have to offer the Super Target treatment. The smallest catalog at the far left has a Denver Colorado address. The next 2 catalogs have the Call Building, San Francisco address and all of them only have rifle sights offered.
Also, my #21 catalog has the 171-3 Second St. address marked out in pencil & under it written is 667 Howard. Maybe King moved from the 171-3 address??

Ralph (rct269) PM me & said he has a KST that has a patent date of August 23, 1938 that was applied for approximately 2 years earlier; however, none of my King guns have a patent date listed. I do have 2, though, that say patent pending. So apparently around 1936 is when King started to offer the KST??

The #19 catalog I have did include inside of it the Dealers price list & Jobbers List. I have included photos for anyone interested.

Guys, I’m not a historian, just a guy who loves cool guns so I’m sorry that I can’t shed more light.

Notice address marked out of the #21 catalog?

Inside cover of the blue catalog dated December 1, 1938

Jobber price list for the #19 catalog

Dealer price list for the #19 catalog

 

[Toyman]

This is a S&W 2nd model 44 special with King rib and Sanderson grips.

 

[Toyman]

A question about King ribs. Were each rib machined to spec or were they made in advance then fitted to the specific gun?

 

[BAM-BAM]

Told before ....................

Dad sent his 6 inch, Colt New Service .357 to Kings in 1938/39 for adjustable sights and an action job....... even with shipping both ways..... it was still ,as he remembered it, between $5-10 cheaper than a Registered Magnum. Somewhere there are a set of thumb rest stocks that look a lot like the Sanderson's in the first Post.

Carried that gun for almost 40 years first as a Motorcycle officer ,Sgt and Patrol Lt....... semi-retired it when he made Capt. for a 2" Detective Special

It also saw service as his centerfire Target pistol while competing on the Departments Pistol Team from the mid-50s till about 1970.

 

[rct269]

The patent date on my KST rib noted above (8.23.38) is applicable to the patent application with a "priority" date of November 11, 1936. My best guess as to the meaning of "priority" date is the date the application was received/filed/logged in/put in line for consideration/whatever. Clearly the entirety of the KST system (bits and pieces/installation procedures/jig tooling/whatever) was in place at that time-----ready for the marketplace. I have no clue as to when they went to the marketplace. I have a clue that says they were in the marketplace throughout WWII---up to at least whenever RKmesa's "post war 38" got the treatment.

Now---as to Toyman's question up above (ribs machined to spec or made in advance then fitted to gun), I'll suggest the hardware was made up/stockpiled/installed as orders/guns arrived. Two reasons for that: 1. I've had mine all apart, and the requisite machining on any particular gun was clearly a matter of formula/jigs established for each frame size/configuration---and was performed in short order. The jobber/dealer/retail prices support this suggestion---as does, 2. The fact post patented ribs are so marked (like mine), and Richard's (RKmesa's) post-war 38's rib isn't marked---suggesting it was sitting around pre-patent, right on through WWII, and up until after his post war 38 was shipped---whenever that was. Right?----right!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[paplinker]

A question about King ribs. Were each rib machined to spec or were they made in advance then fitted to the specific gun?

I think they were likely pre made as my catalog says its extra for a non standard bbl rib length. I can look for it in my catalog but remember it was substantially more.

Here are some parts I came across

 

[rct269]

We've been through this before, but the rib attaches at two points---the aft portion of the frame, with the elevation adjusting screw doing double duty---and holding the rib down---at the front via two pins through the rib and through what's left of the front sight boss.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[paplinker]

This is a S&W 2nd model 44 special with King rib and Sanderson grips.

I was hoping you would repost a picture of this gun one day. Its one of my very favorites.