There seems to be more to the EV story
- Thread starter LoboGunLeather
- Start date
Oldengineer
Member
I'll weigh in on this. Remember that I spent 42 years as a Ford powertrain engineer/planner/executive. I was part of the initial emissions control struggle, then fuel economy mandates, and finally involved in fuel cell systems with a joint venture with Honda.
At a seminar where I presented an SAE (society of automotive engineers) paper, I was asked what was the best engine Ford ever made. My answer was the one that had the most development. So, electric vehicles today are the equivalent of engine mounted air pumps in the 1960's to control hydrocarbon emissions. The technology is in its infancy. Give it a chance to be developed. BTW, I get two company cars a year and I don't have a EV. I do have a hybrid. Tom H.
At a seminar where I presented an SAE (society of automotive engineers) paper, I was asked what was the best engine Ford ever made. My answer was the one that had the most development. So, electric vehicles today are the equivalent of engine mounted air pumps in the 1960's to control hydrocarbon emissions. The technology is in its infancy. Give it a chance to be developed. BTW, I get two company cars a year and I don't have a EV. I do have a hybrid. Tom H.
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coltle6920
Member
Remember "Cash for Clunkers"?
New Jersey has joined California in banning new car sales of ICE vehicles by 2035. Next logical step would be to get rid of existing ICE vehicles in their States.
Maybe we'll see "Cash for ICERs" in the near future.
New Jersey has joined California in banning new car sales of ICE vehicles by 2035. Next logical step would be to get rid of existing ICE vehicles in their States.
Maybe we'll see "Cash for ICERs" in the near future.
I agree that there is a future for the technology and that it is in it's infancy and that it will morph in ways I can't even imagine.
My concern regarding the whole issue is the government mandates etc. In a nutshell, I have an authority problem not an issue with EV's. Even Bill Gates has stated that brute force policies will fail.
If you want one go for it. I am taking a wait and see approach.
Climate change is something we should consider, but is not the emergency people try to make it out to be. Just another attempt to scare people to action. Certainly not a new approach to change. Fear is a strong motivator.
Let's build some nuclear power plants so we can address the electricity from fossil fuels part of the equation. .
Robert
Robert
Grayfox
US Veteran
The power grid in this country is woefully outdated. Large areas can barely handle a few nights of below freezing temperatures.
How the Hell are you gonna plug in a million EVs?
How the Hell are you gonna plug in a million EVs?
I agree with the US being behind on the use of nuclear power plants.
My father was a Nuclear Engineer at Battelle Memorial Institute. He worked in a plutonium lab and operated a small reactor they had in conjunction with Ohio State University. He wound down his career as a consulting engineer decommissioning facilities all over the country. He impressed upon me that it is the cleanest form of energy. The key is establishing the proper controls when constructing facilities and removal / destruction of waste.
Three Mile Island and Chernobyl are examples of how not to do it.
Really? And the "folks you know" are who, exactly? A couple of your grown kids? And you relating their experience with their particular EVs is supposed to outweigh ALL the other documented issues with EVs on the pro/con scale? I believe that is the textbook definition of relying on anecdotal evidence, isn't it?
Based on my reading of most of what you post, you seem to take a position, and then proceed to dig up and post as many cherry-picked "facts" as you can find that support your opinion. All the while ignoring and refusing to even acknowledge anything that might go against your chosen narrative. I think that may be what is known as gaslighting?
But I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Maybe I just have a mistaken impression of you. Forgive me for being so blunt, or if I have misjudged you.
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muddocktor
Member
Just for reference, here is a link I read yesterday about this subject that evidently is the article that LoboGunLeather had read before starting this thread and is a real eye opener, at least for me.
Study determines the astronomical true cost of electric vehicle ownership
My feelings about EV ownership are a bit ambivalent. I know that they do not suit my needs; a hybrid would slot in better for me. For some, a true EV might be just what they need. But where I live, there are not enough charging stations nearby for me to even think of one. And you definitely need to figure cradle to grave costs for these machines, as disposing of the batteries will be a nightmare I think. Also, make them stand on their own two feet and totally remove the tax incentives that the government is presently providing for them. The government already wastes enough of my tax dollars giving it away without them providing more of my tax dollars to someone who wants an EV over a hybrid of ICE powered machine.
Peace!
Study determines the astronomical true cost of electric vehicle ownership
My feelings about EV ownership are a bit ambivalent. I know that they do not suit my needs; a hybrid would slot in better for me. For some, a true EV might be just what they need. But where I live, there are not enough charging stations nearby for me to even think of one. And you definitely need to figure cradle to grave costs for these machines, as disposing of the batteries will be a nightmare I think. Also, make them stand on their own two feet and totally remove the tax incentives that the government is presently providing for them. The government already wastes enough of my tax dollars giving it away without them providing more of my tax dollars to someone who wants an EV over a hybrid of ICE powered machine.
Peace!
UncleEd
Member
No problem. I am more than happy to accept any correction you can offer.
I'm far from infallible and always ready to admit when I'm wrong.
BUT since I am from Missouri, I will need you to SHOW ME where I am wrong.
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And as long as our goobermint keeps us from making use of it, the 200+ year supply that we ALREADY have available to us right here under our own feet will last FOREVER. But with a 200+ year supply already available under US soil, running out isn't the most urgent problem.
Yes we do - because of the current government policies. A scant 3 years ago the USA was a NET PRODUCER of petroleum fuels. Just in case you don't understand the significance of that statement - it means we were producing MORE fossil fuel than we were using. At that time gas was around $2 a gallon. What changed? The amount of oil reserves we have in the ground? The worldwide demand for oil?
NO - the only thing that changed was the government regulations and RESTRICTIONS on domestically produced fossil fuels. THOSE changes caused the price of gasoline to go up 250% in just 3 years. Does that sound like a good thing to you? It doesn't to me. The oil for us to be energy independent is still there, the oil companies just need to be allowed to access it...
Really? And how many acres of land that could be used for other purposes (like growing crops to feed the world's hungry) will be required to build enough wind farms and solar fields to generate enough electricity to replace fossil fuels? Do you even have a clue? HINT - more than it is worth.
Obviously you have bought into the talking points without ever having bothered to do (or even having LOOKED at - or considered) the math. Dig a little deeper and you'll find that wind and solar CANNOT replace fossil fuels, unless you are willing to accept the reality of a power grid that is as unreliable as that of a 3rd world country. Remember what happened in Texas two winters ago? Their grid relied too heavily on wind and solar - and people froze to death due to the unreliability of wind/solar during ONE bad storm. How does that REALITY sound to you?
How does having electricity reliably available to you only 4-6 hours per day sound? Because that is the reality of what you are talking about if you want to use the government to FORCE the elimination of fossil fuels in favor of wind and solar - that is exactly what happened in Texas.
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Here's a little math. EROI (Energy Return on Investment) for various sources. Buffered means adding batteries, pumped storage etc to make the power "dispatchable" i.e. available 24/7:
Oh, and land use:
(actually worse since wind and solar aren't dispatchable.)
Oh, and land use:
(actually worse since wind and solar aren't dispatchable.)
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Let's see how attractive the green agenda looks after a winter with constant power outages, especially in the population dense (dense population?) Northeast. A few thousand "froze to deaths" changes perspectives. We're almost 100% electric down here in the swamp (except vehicles). I got sweats on since it's only 60* outside. Had to turn off the A/C, finally. Keep those fans turning off NJ and Martha's Vineyard, they're gonna need it, shortly. Joe
venomballistics
Member
Is it preference? Or is it government mandate?
Norway is lousy with ultra cheap hydropower. Probably has something to do with their numbers.
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Video description:
UPDATE: The Jeep in this video was charging at the time of the fire. The firefighters unplugged the vehicle upon arrival.
Explore the global repercussions of electric and hybrid vehicle incidents as I investigate a jaw-dropping explosion in Ghent, Belgium involving a Jeep hybrid (PHEV). Connect the dots from a Renault Zoe garage explosion in Germany to a different Jeep 4xe garage explosion in Colorado. Discover the alarming truth about flammable gas released during battery failures. There have been too many firefighter close calls recently involving electric vehicles. Are these incidents a wake-up call for the automotive industry?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtkTp4GVuE[/ame]
UPDATE: The Jeep in this video was charging at the time of the fire. The firefighters unplugged the vehicle upon arrival.
Explore the global repercussions of electric and hybrid vehicle incidents as I investigate a jaw-dropping explosion in Ghent, Belgium involving a Jeep hybrid (PHEV). Connect the dots from a Renault Zoe garage explosion in Germany to a different Jeep 4xe garage explosion in Colorado. Discover the alarming truth about flammable gas released during battery failures. There have been too many firefighter close calls recently involving electric vehicles. Are these incidents a wake-up call for the automotive industry?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtkTp4GVuE[/ame]
PHP:
Naw, that tcouldn't possibly be a real issue.Ματθιας;141871017 said:
Just ask our fellow forum members who have grown kids who LOVE their EV's. THEY are the ones giving us the straight scoop based on "actual examples".
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venomballistics
Member
Ματθιας;141871017 said:
This is just that the current battery type sucks rancid monkey vomit.
The solid state types being slow walked to production mitigate these issues.
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