Thinking of purchasing an older vintage Model 41

[PzKfW5]

Tim, sorry to come across negatively, but there are a lot of internet pranksters out there, and this is a serious subject.

After reading your posts, I would suggest that you take a day-long action pistol shooting course designed to train newbies on how to approach self-defense. Ideally a course like that will cover the legalities of carrying a weapon and when you can legally use one in your state, as well as put you in a action shooting course which teaches/simulates shooting your pistol. The law does vary state-to-state, too. It will open your eyes to a lot of things. As the CCW instructor and Sig competition shooter I took my courses from, here in California, wisely said, "the best thing you can hope for after you pull the trigger is first, that you can stop the threat to your life or the to lives of whichever innocents you're protecting, and, secondly, that your life will not subsequently go to hell indefinitely."

 

[Barrie]

Very well said and 100% true in my mind as well. Excellent advice.

 

[josywales]

Pulling the trigger in self defense is a last resort. If you're in your bedroom, flight is not an option, so you do what you have to. A police Lt presented at our home defense class and he gave the following advice:

1 - If you have fired in self defense, call 911, tell them, "a man has been shot and needs assistance." Don't tell them you shot him, blah, blah, blah. Keep your mouth shut. Hang up. Call your lawyer - preferably one well versed in self defense, firearm use, etc. I don't care what the circumstances were.

2 - BEFORE the police get there, unload the gun and lay it on the kitchen table. Many officers are not familiar with 1911s, or other pistols and he can't count the times a round gets fired off by an officer, while clearing the resident's weapon. (Only repeating what he told us).

3 - When the police arrive and find a body, they are now trying to solve a murder and you are the suspect. Young officers are eager to make the collar. And an overanxious DA can make matters worse. Again, only repeating what he said.

4 - If you are stone cold innocent, it could still run you north of $70,000 to clear up the mess. The cost is VERY dependent on the attitude of your DA, the area of the country you live in, etc. I know, better to be judged by 12...and I agree. Just saying if you are better prepared for the aftermath, you will fare better.

The Lt is in favor of CCW and donates his time to teach, but he warns everyone to be aware of the consequences of firing a gun.

As far as a 22 for self defense. I think there's something to be said about being awoken at 3AM, taking a low recoil, low muzzle flash gun, and putting 5 rounds quickly into a grapefruit-sized area.

 

[Tbrom]

Thanks to everyone that has posted their concerns and helpful thoughts and links. On links - without a doubt the most helpful tip came from Murphydog! He mentioned Ayoob and his book and I went to the internet and found a super video that was produced with him giving a class on the legal issues surrounding actually using a gun against a perpetrator of different crimes and what happens when you use a gun under those types of circumstances. The video is entitled "Judicious use of deadly force". If you folks haven't looked at this then you should. It's long maybe 2 hours or so, maybe more but it is complete and strongly stated from a Captain on a police force that has been to court many times while performing his duties.

The effect that it has had on me is to surely reinforce the idea that using a gun in self defense should be your last resort. Not to mention using a gun when carrying wherever! That has made me really stop and think how I want to proceed with things like a CC permit. I know for sure I will never go out into public areas carrying. Just not me - never needed to in the past and times aren't to the point that would change my thinking on that. I don't go into suspect areas, don't hang out with suspect crowds. I didn't get to the age of 65 by being stupid about where I live and conduct my business. Now that I have retired, those issues are even further from my mind because of where I live and the kinds of things I do.

So no one has to worry about whether I am a vigilante type just waiting to get a gun to start "protecting" myself and the world! I like shooting however for fun, target practice and have watched a lot of Plinkster on YouTube and wish I had a set up like his in his yard - that would really make shooting fun and more practical than going to the range and paying to shoot. But it's still a reasonable pass time and I think is fun but that's not to say shooting in the line of protection would be fun - it is not my idea of fun. I just hope to God I never am faced with that as a choice I need to make. I'm sure all of you feel the same way.

So that's another reason why I am looking at 22 LR semi's. The one I most like is the model 41 but it's very expensive and at my level probably not warranted. I do like very much the S&W model 22A deluxe edition because it is a nice looking gun and is very accurate and I think it would be a lot of fun to shoot. I am not a hunter, don't want to shoot up wildlife, that is not on my agenda so I don't need a rifle really. I don't really even know whether I need a gun at all but if I decide to get one I will remember the things I've learned so far on this forum.

I thank all of you for your concern and help. I'll be sure and let you know what I decide to do - your advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[growr]

It all really comes down to get the right tool for the job. ie. a pocket knife is a great tool for cutting somethings but is a terrible choice to cut down a tree. A chain saw is a better choice, the chain saw however is a terrible choice to cut a piece of string.....

Get the right gun for the job at hand... for starters...select a service caliber...(things actually used by law enforcement...9mm, .38 spl., .40, ,357 magnum, .45acp etc)
Next find a handgun that fits YOUR hand, as long as it is known for reliability, the manufacturer is far less important than a good fit is.

Next is to see if you can actually live fire that model....a good fit doesn't mean that you will do well on target, but your probability does go way up. For example... a J frame Smith feels good to many, but is not an easy gun to shoot well consistently. I am not saying it is a poor choice, just a choice that needs a lot more attention to shoot it well consistently.

Randy

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Hi Tim:

Welcome to the Forum. I've lusted after a Model 41 for as long as I can remember, but I knew I'd never be able to afford one. I really needed a general purpose .22LR semi auto that could be used for plinking, informal target shooting, and hunting small game. I bought a Ruger Mk-II with a 5.0 inch long bull barrel with adjustable sights over 30 years ago to satisfy my .22LR pistol needs. I've been very, very happy with it, and it has done well to put squirrels in the cooking pot, dispatch venomous snakes, dispatch varmints in a live trap, and I've even won a few ribbons using it to shoot metallic silhouette targets. Additionally, I used it to introduce my son to handgun shooting and competition (steel plates).

The Mk-II is out of production, but can be pretty easily found on the on-line firearms sales websites at reasonable prices. I'll be 60 yrs. old in a few months, and while my disposable income has grown a bit, my motor skills, strength, etc. have declined with time. I could afford a Model 41 now, but why bother when I'm perfectly happy with my Ruger Mk-II (field stripping aside ).

Best of luck,

Dave

 

[Barrie]

Dave you should treat yourself to a used M41 and really feel and see the difference between it and the Ruger you have. I do believe you would be amazed on how much difference there actually is in even accuracy alone. I have owned Rugers over the years and found that they were not real competition to the M41 in comparison. To me the M41 is a much superior target pistol period then the Ruger especially in taking apart for cleaning as well. The M41's were used in the Olympics as well. Even the military teams chose them also over everything else.

 

[Tbrom]

There are a few good Model 41s out there. One with 2 barrels and in very good condition but they are a little expensive for me at this time. I'm starting to think that the Model SW22 Victory is a very good pistol and you can get it new with a threaded barrel for 429 and see if you can get a little better price than that - that's the list price. They are already teamed up with Volquartsen for two very nice barrels - one fluted and one in carbon fiber and they haven't even started making accessory grips and they will come along - would love to get a nice custom grip like they make for the Ruger 22/45. The Victory is a nicer gun than the Ruger, imho.

Someone mentioned getting the right tool for the job. I'm looking at the right tool for me in handguns that is. Home protection anyone is better off with a cheap pump shotgun. But I'm not worried about home protection in the least; not where I live. So I'm only really interested in accuracy and having some fun with a target pistol and the Victory seems to fit that bill nicely. I also like the Ruger SLR22 and M&P 22LR both are nice handguns and would also double as decent protection. I don't care what anyone says for me, a 22 considering both me and my wife would fit our needs. I don't need a 380, a 9mm or 40 cal. and I know my wife doesn't. That's basically it for me. Thanks everyone for posting your comments and advice. I've learned a great deal from you all from my first post!

Tim

 

[edward hogan]

For the money and purpose...

A 1911 Springfield or Colt is a good choice for home defense. The .22LR is not much to rely on to STOP an aggressor who has entered your home to plunder it and likely do you and yours harm.

Jonathan Ciener made some very affordable and accurate .22lr conversion kits for the 1911. I have one and it shoots cheap hi-vel ammo with great accuracy. Probably about $200. There are also Kimber and Colt conversion kits out there for more money...

Get the 1911 and Ciener conversion. Might just find you want to dedicate the Ciener to full-time assembled status if you like shooting .22lr a lot.

Might visit your library and read up on handgun shooting. Get the basics for trigger control, stance, sight picture and sight alignment.

If you have old guy eyes, might consider scoping your handgun. A good match Ruger, Browning, or 41 with scope will shoot right with any quality rifle if you can hold hard and press smooth.