This guy thinks 9mm IS big enough for self defense!

Entertaining video.
Entertaining thread.
Arguments that will never be settled.
What more could a Redneck Curmudgeon ask for on a Saturday that's too wet & cold to go to the range and the NASCAR race not starting until suppertime? :D
 
9mm will kill no doubt about it. Shoot placement is most important. If your off on your shot though and hit someone off to the side instead of the center a bigger bullet had a better chance of taking him out of the game.
 
Wow, how many times in print has the 9mm vs. Big Bore Whatever been discussed?

I think he was just showing what can be done with a high capacity 9mm, I don't think it was meant to convey he would just stand there and empty the gun at a bad guy.

My daily carry is a Ruger SP-101, a five shot .357. I don't feel in the slightest that I'm undergunned. However, in the past, I've carried a Browning Hi-Power, and I didn't feel undergunned with that, either.

I think it all boils down to having confidence in yourself first, and confidence in your weapon of choice second.
 
Well, we have another video of a guy who can shoot into a steel target with rapid speed and accuracy. What he proved was that he is a good shot. Wahoo. All that he proved to me is that his gun can fire into a target and make a pinging noise. I see alot of guys I work with who are about his age that go to the range and do the exact same thing. They get their hands on something with a high capacity magazine and they think it is the greatest thing in the world to empty it faster than a junkie can find a vein. I have long since believed that shot placement is the key to good marksmanship. Someone mentioned Jerry Miculek. Jerry shoots for competiton, this guy is trying to get a point across about the 9mm and personal defense. Is the 9mm ok for personal defense? That's his choice, I look at its track record and say no. Granted I carry a .38 Special on occasion, but I know that I can hit what I aim at with it, and I also have my own loads that I worked up for it. I also carry a .357 and a .41 Magnum, also with the loads that I have worked up for it. I have also carried .44 Specials, .44 Magnums, .45 Colts and .45 ACP's. I practice with them like any other gun. I practice the way I have been taught. Double taps work great, hip shots work great, and I don't think I need to empty the entire gun into a target to prove my point, that's just wasting ammo.
If this guy wants to prove how good the 9mm is instead of his shooting abilities, maybe he should go out and do some real ballistics testing with it, because even my .22 pistol can make pinging noises on a target too.
 
5906fan said:
seems the German Army did fairly well with 9mm sub-guns to the tune of around a million or so Russkis at Stalingrad.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, they did. Bundesarchiv Picture 183-E0406-0022-011
Sorry, as a trained historian whose family was involved in the Stalingrad on both sides could not pass your comment. It was Luftwafe that performed admirably there: Germans cleaned out 90% of the city, but lost it all in the bloodiest house-to-house battle. Here is an example

German is on the left, Russky is on the right:

Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-E0406-0022-011%2C_Russland%2C_deutscher_Kriegsgefangener.jpg


And does not the lowly 38 special equal to 9mm Browning?
 
Last edited:
and well indeed Hitler lost a million of the best troops he had there also, casualties and captured. few returned home, IIRC about 6K out of about 100K captured.
both sides made use of 9mm subguns/carbines.
a nephew and myself own 9mm carbines, I load some +P loads (his kel-tec even prefers them to regular factory loads) that do well in them.
awhile back we stacked up mud-crusted and frozen chunks of 2X6 spruce 5 deep and he shot a round into the stack the 124gr hp slug stopped in the 5th piece and some of the 2x's split down the length of.
 
David LaPell said:
Well, we have another video of a guy who can shoot into a steel target with rapid speed and accuracy. What he proved was that he is a good shot. Wahoo. All that he proved to me is that his gun can fire into a target and make a pinging noise.

I have long since believed that shot placement is the key to good marksmanship.

Granted I carry a .38 Special on occasion, but I know that I can hit what I aim at with it
Click to expand...

Can you clarify your position? The video shows a guy that can hit what he aims at, and can deliver an amazing amount of firepower accurately. You seem unimpressed, yet you say you carry a .38 and can hit what you aim at.

I'm not trying to insult you or belittle you in any way. I'd like to know what your thoughts are. Is he an idiot showing his skills with a 9mm but you carrying a .38 that you can hit a target with is better? I don't understand. :confused:

Now I'll carry a .380 (if it ever gets here :mad:) and I believe shot placement is king. I believe more shots are good (big mags) and if those shots are on target I believe you demonstrate the ability to align the sights and control the weapon. I believe someone that can do this quickly and accurately has an advantage over someone that can only hit a target after 5 seconds of grip adjustment and breathing exercises. I believe if this guy had to duck and run, then jump up and take a couple quick shots he is demonstrating that he can acquire a target quickly and follow up with multiple shots.

I do not understand anyone bashing what I think is a fine display of accuracy and control. I cannot shoot any of my large caliber pistols like this yet, but I'll work on it.
 
I think the demonstration was how effectively a 9mm can be employed, and then the close up of the previously clean target shows what happens on the other end, I don't think tactics were high on his list to display. What I find myself asking in discussions like this is, do I want to find out first hand how effective a 9 is, personally? No thanks, nor any of my rim fires either. But there is something to be said for volume of fire. Some of you may remember having to stand at attention and scream "when fired upon, return fire, gain fire superiority, and maintain fire superiority." Flapjack
 
Lost Lake said:
Can you clarify your position? The video shows a guy that can hit what he aims at, and can deliver an amazing amount of firepower accurately. You seem unimpressed, yet you say you carry a .38 and can hit what you aim at.

I'm not trying to insult you or belittle you in any way. I'd like to know what your thoughts are. Is he an idiot showing his skills with a 9mm but you carrying a .38 that you can hit a target with is better? I don't understand. :confused:

Now I'll carry a .380 (if it ever gets here :mad:) and I believe shot placement is king. I believe more shots are good (big mags) and if those shots are on target I believe you demonstrate the ability to align the sights and control the weapon. I believe someone that can do this quickly and accurately has an advantage over someone that can only hit a target after 5 seconds of grip adjustment and breathing exercises. I believe if this guy had to duck and run, then jump up and take a couple quick shots he is demonstrating that he can acquire a target quickly and follow up with multiple shots.

I do not understand anyone bashing what I think is a fine display of accuracy and control. I cannot shoot any of my large caliber pistols like this yet, but I'll work on it.
Click to expand...


Our local instructor say there are three key factors to defense with a handgun.
1. bullet placement
2. bullet placement
3. bullet placement

Remember 9 mm was enough to take out Tupac and Biggie.
 
Not sure why everyone is looking so hard to criticize this kid for everthing under the sun. This kid has a talent and skill he has refined through practice. A lot of people on this forum are reading waaaaayyyyyy too much into this, the whole video was suppose to be sarcastic and to show what a 9mm gun and a proficient shooter can do.....he was not trying to demonstrate tactics or start a debate on legal issues of deadly force. By him dumping a mag into a steel plate is not the same as him saying "if I ever have to use this gun to save my life I am going to keep shooting the person untill my mag runs out". I don't see anyone on here ever busting Jerry Miculik's chops when he does speed demonstrations.....or question his tactics. It is dissapointing to me to see so many people so eager to jump all over someone and offer non constructive criticism. This is the first time I have ever visited this particular forum and if this is the kind of silly things people sit around and argue about then I'll probably make a point to avoid this one.

too those of you who were decent enough to give the man his due, this post wasn't aimed at you.
 
RightWinger said:
Not sure why everyone is looking so hard to criticize this kid for everthing under the sun. This kid has a talent and skill he has refined through practice. A lot of people on this forum are reading waaaaayyyyyy too much into this, the whole video was suppose to be sarcastic and to show what a 9mm gun and a proficient shooter can do.....he was not trying to demonstrate tactics or start a debate on legal issues of deadly force. By him dumping a mag into a steel plate is not the same as him saying "if I ever have to use this gun to save my life I am going to keep shooting the person untill my mag runs out". I don't see anyone on here ever busting Jerry Miculik's chops when he does speed demonstrations.....or question his tactics. It is dissapointing to me to see so many people so eager to jump all over someone and offer non constructive criticism. This is the first time I have ever visited this particular forum and if this is the kind of silly things people sit around and argue about then I'll probably make a point to avoid this one.

too those of you who were decent enough to give the man his due, this post wasn't aimed at you.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, said much more eloquently than I could say it. Admire the skill the man shows and leave it at that. :)
 
With modern ammo, a 9mm may be a viable self defense caliber. I still prefer something that begins with a "4."
 
Strato said:
Excellent point though I think a lot of people are too philosophical and judgemental to enjoy any display for what it is. Also I'd just like to add IMO in any defense situation reguardless of legalities the first objective is stopping the threat. No matter how many hits a perp has taken if he is armed and has movement he still poses a major threat. I'd much rather have to explain why my actions were neccessary to preserve my life than to have someone deliver my ulogy.
Click to expand...

Very well said.
 
I love the 45 for stopping power but with proper load selection and lot's of practice a 9mm is more than adequate for self defense, it's the people who can't put the first round on target that think it isn't. Although with that being said my MP days training with the CT state police really instilled the modicum that more kinetic energy is better at stopping bad guys faster. I think the 9mm got a bad rep due to fmj's used as a self defense load.
 
Although some have illuded to it, there hasn't been a whole lot about being shot at, while addressing a threat. And the idea posed that enough training will dictate your reaction in a deadly force situation is Dumbo's Feather, as far as My experience goes. Training and practice is great, but when that big shot of juice hits your central nervous system, no one can guarentee much of anything, and that truth should be an element in any good traing program, in my view. Mental preparedness is at least as important as the mechanics of gun handling in my view, and it should be practiced together to be the most effective that it can. A very simple example of this is the much talked about pop up targets that showed up on military gun ranges durring the Viet Nam War. It seems that when green rifle companys in WWII first came under fire, only apx 10% of the troups reportedly, initially, returned fire. Studies done in actual combat by people who specialize in human behavior resulted in, ammong many other things, the pop up target, and the three critical human responses that it illicits: Stimulous, Response, and Reinforcement. The target pops up= stimulous, the soldier shoots at the target= response, the target falls=reinforcement. This all happens with targets that look generally like human beings, and after being instilled with some "talk" by trained instructors, where the rules of the "game" are instilled in the "players". This is combined with sessions, usually after exhausting excersise of somne kind (they got lots) where, before being dismissed to colapse somewhere, the troups are made to stand at attention and scream "when fired upon, return fire-gain fire superiority, and maintain fire superiority" for an extended period of time, preferably in a down poor, or blazing heat. Once a human being is "indoctrinated" with Stimulous-Response, and Reinforcement, it stays with them. So, as a result, the findings in Viet Nam were reversed from those typical of WWII. When a green infantry company was first fired upon, 90% returned fire, initially. Unfortunately, those in Viet Nam had to use the "M-16" as redesigned by a former Ford Motor Company bean counter. If that was the only weapon I had access to when I was initially fired upon, I would use it to try to reach my Model 629 no dash 8 3/8's. Flapjack
 
.45 ACP.....


.....because shooting twice is just silly! :)






Needed to throw a little more gas on this fire! ;)




As for the young guys talent, he did draw cleanly and get the first shot on target. The mag change was done in a fairly smooth manner. Dump targets can be fun. That's about all I will say about the video.


WG840
 
I'm gonna tell the DA that when I discovered the BG coming at me I was so scared that I emptied my gun at (notice- at) him.

If there three of them I pray I'll have enough to around.

9mm comes with big magazines.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top