Thoughts on laser sites

[SavageSmoker]

Hi All,

My primary home defense firearm is a Glock 19 equipped with a Crimson Trace laser site. My backup and CCW firearm (when I do carry outside my home or in my car) is a Shield .40, I do not plan on installing a laser on this gun. I recently contemplated selling my 19 for a M&P .40c as a primary HD pistol. Due to some advice from the good folks here, I have decided to keep my 19 but will be buying the .40 sometime down the road. I was just wondering what sight configurations people recommend for a HD application?

FYI...I am adamant about starting out using the mannual factory sites that come installed on a firearm, be it a handgun or long gun. Proficiency in its purist form is the number one skill to master, IMHO.

That said, what are your thoughts on laser sites for HD firearms in general? Pros and cons? How about coupled with some type of fiber optic night sights? Just wondering what the current philosophy is on sights for HD that might be used in dark conditions with split-second decission making and target acquisition.

Thx...Brian

 

[kbm6893]

I think they're great. I had a pair on my M9 Beretta but no longer use that gun for home defense, so I sold them. Only problem with them is they advertise your position, but you shouldn't be moving through your house looking for a bad guy anyway (unless there's another member of the household that you need to get to).

 

[SW CQB 45]

I ran a CT laser grips on an Officers ACP at one time.

I teach firearms to cadets and shoot competitively PPC and.s othshe police type marksmanship type matches.

With this laser grip....I found myself become very laser reliant. I would not use the sights and having large hands....the laser grip was useless on alternate side grip (kept have to re adjust)

I did not like what direction I was heading...and sold the grips.

However....there are pros in a defensive situation in the area of speed and accuracy....and hopefully it works when you need it.

I personally think that a white light attached to the gun is more valuable as the laser does not identify your target.

If you get a light with a beam projection instead of a broad flood....and you train with it....the beam of light can act as the laser in closer distances plus the light will tell you if that's an intruder or a family member.

My opinion

 

[Twoboxer]

FWIW, I concluded a while back that tritium night sights + laser was the right combo for my HD M&P. Pros and cons are sort of combined in my reasoning below:

1) A red laser sight is 100% visible in all home defense lighting (including "none") . . . as long as the battery is working

2) The laser is worth the effort for HD because it allows aimed shooting while staying focused on your target and not the front sight . . . even when you can't or don't want to line up your head with the iron sights . . . as long as the battery is working.

3) Given the battery limitation, some sort of night sights beyond a flashlight seemed appropriate as backup. However, I saw no point in replacing the factory white dots with any fixed sights that needed light to be "energized", or needed light to operate.

That thought process led me to using the Crimson Trace RailMaster and Trijicon HD sights . . . and a flashlight in the drawer. While it may represent a bit of overkill, I'm extremely pleased with this combination.

ATM I am shooting weekly, and 90% of the ammo I run through this pistol is done via the iron sights. The laser is used during the next-to-last magazine to practice and ensure that the battery and alignment are in order.

I have also found the laser is useful as a training aid for me and others . . . the laser quickly reveals and illustrates any flaws in (eg) trigger mechanics.

The Trijicon HD front sight consists of the small green tritium dot (vial), surrounded by a luminescent yellow ring. The rear sights feature only the green dots (vials). In normal light, the front sight is very prominent and easy to pick up and align with the rear green dots. The front yellow ring remains visible and the green dots grow brighter as light fails. In total darkness the three green dots are quite visible. IOW, the sights work all the time. For 12 years, they say

(I'll try to add photos here in a later edit.)

 

[S&WOkie]

I bet a laser and a light would come in handy in a dark movie theater, but only if you are allowed to carry there.

 

[Shielded]

I bet a laser and a light would come in handy in a dark movie theater, but only if you are allowed to carry there.

I was thinking the same, sort of. In a very low light or chaotic situation a laser could make a precise shot easier, if God forbid any of us found ourselves in such a predicament similar to the tragedy. Might be a good investment. On a side note my wife & I have decided to never go to a movie again, not worth the risk. We didn't go much anyway, maybe once or twice a year. Also If I can't carry, we won't go to that place, business, etc... from now on.

 

[Tom Goodrick]

I have an M&P 40 FS for my HD gun and a smaller Ruger 40 for an SD gun. The M&P is a little more awkward to draw from a concealed holster. I expect to put a laser sight on the M&P. Thanks for the info in this thread for showing me it makes sense.

Because use of a laser takes a change in the mental approach to aiming, I wonder if it will be easier to make the switch to sight-oriented vs target-oriented) if the guns are different?

 

[Twoboxer]

Because use of a laser takes a change in the mental approach to aiming, I wonder if it will be easier to make the switch to sight-oriented vs target-oriented) if the guns are different?

I don't quite understand "easier . . . if the guns are different".

As for the sighting change on the same gun . . . I can only tell you it feels easy for me to make the change. I use iron sights almost exclusively.

Once you decide you can't/won't use the iron sights and you press the laser's button, there may well be no need to bring the pistol up to eye level. You're watching what worries you already, and there seems to be a whole lot less to do before being able to pull the trigger.

 

[bobnieder]

I can't speak to the laser sight side of the question, but, for me, the Truglo TFO's are the best all-around sight, regardless of lighting. The fiber optics pick up any available light, and the tritium vials are large and bright -- visible in dim lighting as well as darkness. Try to see and handle a pistol equipped with the sights you are considering before you buy -- if you can. It is hard to compare them based on photos and ads.

 

[SavageSmoker]

Thx for all the great replies! So much good info here...keep it coming.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

I can't speak to the laser sight side of the question, but, for me, the Truglo TFO's are the best all-around sight, regardless of lighting. The fiber optics pick up any available light, and the tritium vials are large and bright -- visible in dim lighting as well as darkness. Try to see and handle a pistol equipped with the sights you are considering before you buy -- if you can. It is hard to compare them based on photos and ads.

I just had a set of Truglo TFO sights installed on my S&W M&P 40C. This pistol is also equipped with a Crimson Trace Laser, and a small "tactical" flashlight on the dust cover rail.

Best of luck,

Dave

 

[gnystrom]

I use Crimson trace on my snubbies. The dots will allow me to hit somewhat accurately at 75 feet. The trick is to use the laser dot and not the sights at the same time. The beauty of CT laser sights is the ability to turn them off when not needed. This enables you to not give your position away if you are worried about that.

I think the three biggest advantages of laser sights may be the ability to shoot quite accurately with either hand and from virtually any position. Secondly, as mentioned before, they are a great dry fire training aid. Thirdly, and maybe most important, there are no Bad Guy's that like a red or green dot on their chest. They leave the scene or stop their advance very quickly. My 2¢

 

[GF1]

I ran a CT laser grips on an Officers ACP at one time.

I teach firearms to cadets and shoot competitively PPC and.s othshe police type marksmanship type matches.

With this laser grip....I found myself become very laser reliant. I would not use the sights and having large hands....the laser grip was useless on alternate side grip (kept have to re adjust)

I did not like what direction I was heading...and sold the grips.

However....there are pros in a defensive situation in the area of speed and accuracy....and hopefully it works when you need it.

I personally think that a white light attached to the gun is more valuable as the laser does not identify your target.

If you get a light with a beam projection instead of a broad flood....and you train with it....the beam of light can act as the laser in closer distances plus the light will tell you if that's an intruder or a family member.

My opinion

Good advice here, mirrors my experience generally.

The biggest problem I had was that I could not ever get comfortable with focusing on the target as I bring the gun up and begin to press the trigger. I tried for a couple of months, and a lot of ammunition (carried an M9 Beretta with these grips in Iraq, then switched back). I'm a believer in using basic handgun shooting technique; under stress, you will fall back on habit. For night, use night sights and a light. And if your habit is a sole focus on target and laser beam good luck when the switch breaks or the battery doesn't work. Fractions of a second are critical in a gun fight, and the time lost fiddling with gear can be fatal.

 

[Smith357]

That said, what are your thoughts on laser sites for HD firearms in general?

I don't care for battery operated devices on combat firearms, not fond of glass on combat firearms either. But that's just me, I'm a crotchety old fart who prefers to keep things simple.