Thoughts on the 1911
- Thread starter CAJUNLAWYER
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as my local dealer said before i bought my SW1911 "you want a 1911 as your first gun? are you shure? Their is a reason that it has been around for 100 yrs and you will be spoiled for life! you wont want another gun."
The Rabbi
Member
Antiquated design. Horrible recoil. Inaccurate when reliable and unreliable when accurate. Prone to operator error under stress. I honestly could not name a more over-hyped gun.
If you want to make one both more reliable and more accurate, trade it for a SIG P220.
If you want to make one both more reliable and more accurate, trade it for a SIG P220.
There is absolutely no truth to your statement. Period.
The P220 is a fine gun. But the long hard gritty DA pull is not fun. I actually thought the P220 was overrated. I HAD two of them.
Pay $900 for a P220 and the same amount for a 1911 and you will see more people chose the 1911.
And that's not my opinion. It's fact.
Oh, and tear down each gun as far as you can. See which design is antiquated. 
Ever try to detail strip a Sig? No thanks.
Ever try to detail strip a Sig? No thanks.
Totally agree. (Except you can replace "a P220" with "any other .45 auto" and be even more correct IMO.
Freind of mine owns an indoor range. Foolishly, I traded him a Kimber Classic for a Sig P220.
The Sig was one of the most accurate guns I ever shot. Once you got past the DA first trigger pull however.
It was a used gun. An older East German Sig. Don't know how many rounds it had through it when I got it, but I put about 5000 rounds through it and found the slide was cracked. No Sig no more.
The Kimber however has well over 300,000 rounds through it and still going strong. It broke an extrator once. So I replaced and tuned. Can't do that to a Sig!
The Sig was one of the most accurate guns I ever shot. Once you got past the DA first trigger pull however.
It was a used gun. An older East German Sig. Don't know how many rounds it had through it when I got it, but I put about 5000 rounds through it and found the slide was cracked. No Sig no more.
The Kimber however has well over 300,000 rounds through it and still going strong. It broke an extrator once. So I replaced and tuned. Can't do that to a Sig!
I own quite a few handguns. Many are of the 1911 style from various makers. I have owned or currently own guns by virtually every maker and in several designs with vastly different features. Having shot these guns a lot over the years, I have became very familar with the operation and quirks of each gun as well as the gun makers.
Leaving the brand out of this and comparing just gun type, the 1911 is a far better designed and functions smoother than any other style weapon. My 1911 sidearms has more dependability built into them than many of my revolvers. The recoil is noticibly less than that of other semi pistols in .45acp. The ease of service is nicer on the 1911.
There are two kinds of serious handgun shooters. Those who own 1911 style guns and those who will. Why else are there web sites just for 1911 users? WHy are there so many collectors of 1911 guns? Why is the 1911 still in existence 100 years later? It is because they work beautifully.
Leaving the brand out of this and comparing just gun type, the 1911 is a far better designed and functions smoother than any other style weapon. My 1911 sidearms has more dependability built into them than many of my revolvers. The recoil is noticibly less than that of other semi pistols in .45acp. The ease of service is nicer on the 1911.
There are two kinds of serious handgun shooters. Those who own 1911 style guns and those who will. Why else are there web sites just for 1911 users? WHy are there so many collectors of 1911 guns? Why is the 1911 still in existence 100 years later? It is because they work beautifully.
The Rabbi
Member
Please show me a P220 that is $900. Typically they are $7-800 guns.
"Long, hard gritty"??? Really?
More people chose Barack Obama in the last election. Popularity is meaningless.
I have seen $1000 Kimbers throw front sights. They crack slide stops and other small parts. High dollar 1911's that jam, are unreliable with certain kinds of ammo, and require gunsmithing to work right out of the box. Replace recoil springs every 1500 rounds. Again recoil considerably stiffer than any other .45 on the market, even the micro versions from Para.
So your "facts" are completely wrong. As far as opinion, you are welcome to yours. That's what makes America great.
Sorry buddy, but that's baloney. Kimber does NOT represent the 1911 community of guns.
Recoil? You obviously haven't shot many 1911's or don't know how.
I have sold full size 1911's to smallish women who found that the 1911 fits their hand better, the recoil was minimal, the trigger was FAR superior to any DA/SA gun, and the magazines were easier to load.
Factor in the high bore axis of the Sig and it's no contest.
And who in the world is worried about a recoil spring?! That's part of the simplicity of the 1911. Buy and $8 Wolff spring and replace it!
No, the truth is some people are just too lazy to learn how to run a 1911 properly and maintain it. It ain't hard.
The OP simply stated his first experience with the 1911 and you turned it into an apples and oranges thread and threw Sig into the mix.
They are two completely different guns.
Quit while your still behind.
Recoil? You obviously haven't shot many 1911's or don't know how.
I have sold full size 1911's to smallish women who found that the 1911 fits their hand better, the recoil was minimal, the trigger was FAR superior to any DA/SA gun, and the magazines were easier to load.
Factor in the high bore axis of the Sig and it's no contest.
And who in the world is worried about a recoil spring?! That's part of the simplicity of the 1911. Buy and $8 Wolff spring and replace it!
No, the truth is some people are just too lazy to learn how to run a 1911 properly and maintain it. It ain't hard.
The OP simply stated his first experience with the 1911 and you turned it into an apples and oranges thread and threw Sig into the mix.
They are two completely different guns.
Quit while your still behind.
The Rabbi
Member
They are completely different guns.
One is modern and easy to shoot, take apart and maintain.
The other is a jam-o-matic tinker toy.
Enjoy!
One is modern and easy to shoot, take apart and maintain.
The other is a jam-o-matic tinker toy.
Enjoy!
shovelwrench
Member
Big +1 on that, simple as can be.
Now as far as a Sig Sour, never found one of those big boxy clunky heavy triggered boat anchors very appealing. But boy are they tough
Nanook 450
Member
You guys are arguing with a mere troll - SWAT, FBI and our elite armed forces choose the 1911 - not many Rabbis appreciate Mr. Browning's mind.
Dragonfly
Member
With its low bore axis I find the 1911 recoils better than other .45s. Here's a shot of my 70-year-old Dad from last week shooting his Commander-length Para with 230 grain factory loads -- you can see the arrow pointing to empty case but the pistol is already right back on target. He's in good shape and an experienced shooter but not unusually strong or anything.
The 1911 is everything you need and nothing you don't. There are a few dogs out there after a century of continuous use and production, but in a good example it's the very definition of a serious fighting handgun. It's not perfect, especially in terms of the operator training necessary to master it, but it's so close that it might as well be. Blanket statements about horrible recoil, etc., merely reveal their maker's lack of insight.
Okie John
Okie John
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The same Rabbi was selling a 1911 on another forum a while back. It was a nice looking gun and was NIB for something like $1200. He posted photos on another site. Not sure if he sold it or not but it looked really good.
I first shot the 1911 in the Navy in 1967. Qualified as expert with it the following year. So much for unreliable, innacurate, etc., even for an old GI pistol. I've owned many 1911s since then, all Colts. Still own several, from a 1951 Government Model to an Enhanced Series 80. I recently ordered a S&W 1911PD Gunsight Edition. I liked the looks of it, the lightweight frame and the idea I wouldn't need to do any further modifications to it. As other's have said I wouldn't give up my S&W revolvers, but the 1911 just feels natural in the hand.
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