Time for Correspondence Campaign?

27 Beck said:
Why should S&W fix something on guns that aren't broken.
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Don't need to fix what ain't broke. IMO, S&W needs to fix the cause of the great number of OOBs. To address the cause after it has blown up in the shooter's face is at best less than responsible, and at worst a tragic story in the making.

Ya know..... Months ago there was a S&W Forum contributor who said she knew the inside story. She explained it was just a few rifles S&W rushed out the door in a hurry to meet demand. That was total BS. She turned out to be nuts and was ultimately banned from S&W Forums. Now we are seeing reports of the new model 15-22 having OOB. We tried to BS ourselves into thinking is was just Rem GB. Now we are seeing reports of OOBs with Win, CCI, Fed and Rem. I have read postings attempting to characterize OOBs as just a typical day at the range with any .22lr. That's just more BS. And of course S&W has never heard of any problems with the 15-22.

At some point... enough BS is enough BS. I reached that point. That beings said, I fully understand that others require more BS. :p

Now onto more cheerful discussion.... How bout them Saints! .
 
bgdv1 said:
nice letter phil,
had my wife retype it and printed it and added my name and email to it, going out in the mail tomorrow morning.more should do the same and maybe we can get some possetive action started.
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Thanks.

I copied in the shooting ranges I frequent and where I purchased the rifle. If I had purchased the 15-22 at one of the large retail chains I would have included the local store and corporate headquarters. S&W can surely ignore a great many consumers, but I suspect it wouldn't take more than one large corporate retail inquiry to get the attention of S&W. It is possible that S&W corporate officers are unaware. IMO, it would be a good idea to make sure that possibility is eliminated. ;)
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
At some point... enough BS is enough BS. I reached that point.

Now onto more cheerful discussion.... How bout them Saints! .
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Me too. When I didn't like the fact the Colt M4 .22s were breaking in half, I decided to move on to some other manufacturers offering.

Why risk you health with high blood pressure and lost sleep over a .22? Heart attack or stroke much more serious than an OOB that might happen. Just sell your 15-22 to someone else and move on.

Congrats on the Saints win. Too bad the game decided on a coin toss.
 
bgdv1 said:
nice letter phil,
had my wife retype it and printed it and added my name and email to it, going out in the mail tomorrow morning.more should do the same and maybe we can get some possetive action started.
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Yikes! Ever hear of copy and paste?:D
 
lonejacklarry said:
Well, Phil, I wrote a long, detailed letter to Mr. Golden that should have been on his desk (whom am I kidding?) on January 4, 2010 when they reopened.

On January 18, 2010, I spoke to the person answering calls for Mr. Golden and inquired about my letter. She stated that she had not seen it but would research it and call me back. I'm getting pretty hungry sitting by my phone.................

I have not experienced the great C/S that others mentioned. Early in this ordeal I talked to one person in C/S who said he would mail me a call tag. After 10 days I called back and spoke to Paul Remallard (sp) who sounded like he had some sense. He emailed me a call tag that day. I got the previously promised tag yesterday-a day after FedEx claimed that my rifle had made it clear back to S&W w/ Paul's call tag. (For you doubters, the postmark on the letter was 8 days after our conversation)

Feel free to start a campaign. It has been my experience, however, that employees act much like their superiors. You military and police folks know exactly what I'm talking about. Sloppy sergeant-sloppy troops. If the CEO does not care, then the guys on the shipping dock do not care either. Their stock has been in the dumper--any company dealing w/ armaments of any ilk that was worth it's salt should have really done well in the political environment of the last couple of years. S&W has sold a lot of weapons but the stock is waaaay down which indicates that the stock buyers (individuals, companies, mutual fund companies, etc.) don't think much of the company either.

My opinion is that the company is not well-run and the customer service reflects that. I am still a believer in democracy and plan to vote w/ my feet.
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Very well said.
 
S&W customer service???

I mentioned that I had sent a letter to Mr. Golden, CEO, at S&W previously. It would have been in his office on 1/4/10. I think I also mentioned that I had not received a response after talking to "Doreen" in Mr. Golden's office. She had told me that she would research the letter and see why there was nothing done.

When I get bored I tend to think which has gotten me into more trouble than tequila. Anyway, I called S&W at 8:00 a.m. EST and left a message for Doreen. No response. At 2:30 EST, I called back and she made the mistake of answering.

Yes, she remembered me but did not remember the letter. She said, no, they did not log correspondence. Anyway, she said she would have the Director of Customer Service call me ASAP. Well, he didn't call but Paul Remillard, the one that sounded like he had some sense when I first talked to him did. He told me that he had received my rifle and instructions from someone to make me happy. (Insert your own sarcastic joke here___________________________)

He went on to promise that the rifle would be functioning as it should when I got it back. Additionally, he was going to send me a sheet w/ approved ammunition information. He went on to tell me that the owner's manual was being changed to include this info.

As I understand it, all the problems are ammo related. I guess I could see how an OOB could occur if the bolt is not being thrown back far enough to be able to push the fresh cartridge home. Then, if the round should go off before the bolt is closed, lots of powder, smoke, fire, and gun parts go out the little door. I guess ftf and fte problems could occur for the same reasons-low powered ammo and it will not function correctly.

It seems that Paul is making a genuine effort. However, this is not my first rodeo. I still say this rifle is like a 6' redhead w/ a gold front tooth that owns her own liquor store: "She's purty but she's going to be a problem down the line".
 
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lonejacklarry said:
As I understand it, all the problems are ammo related.

He went on to promise that the rifle would be functioning as it should when I got it back. Additionally, he was going to send me a sheet w/ approved ammunition information. He went on to tell me that the owner's manual was being changed to include this info.
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It's good to see that S&W has moved past stage #1 of denial and is now into stage #2-- blame someone else.

I am looking forward to seeing what ammo S&W will select to....

A. Properly install/align the ejector on new rifles prior to shipping.

B. Stack properly in the mag without so much fuss

C. Clear the mag without being bent in half by the bolt

D. OOB rate of occurrence that is similar to other modern day firearms.

F. Performs with MOA accuracy at 50 yards with a Match Grade Precision Barrel.

That would be one 'magic bullet'
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
It's good to see that S&W has moved past stage #1 of denial and is now into stage #2-- blame someone else.

I am looking forward to seeing what ammo S&W will select to....

A. Properly install/align the ejector on new rifles prior to shipping.

B. Stack properly in the mag without so much fuss

C. Clear the mag without being bent in half by the bolt

D. OOB rate of occurrence that is similar to other modern day firearms.

F. Performs with MOA accuracy at 50 yards with a Match Grade Precision Barrel.

That would be one 'magic bullet'
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To me, that sounds like CCI Mini Mags.
I haven't had any issue with the round since the beginning. :D
 
maxicooper said:
To me, that sounds like CCI Mini Mags.
I haven't had any issue with the round since the beginning. :D
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I am not trying to high jack the thread here but from the above and my retailer info, it might be worth a try.

From the retailer from whom I got the 15-22:

"I do know from past experience that CCI mini-mag 0030 w/ the copper coated lead bullet works best in all of my autoloaders."

From what I can tell, these cost not much more than what the bulk, non-firing, non-ejecting, cheap ammo costs. We've moved from about .06 a round to about .065 a round here.

These prices from 5,000 lot of each ammo on gunbroker.com.

Anyone else w/ experience w/ this ammunition?
 
Taking a proactive approach on letter writing is a good thing. What's not so good in these types of situations is using regular mail. Almost any situation warranting interaction with a corporate office requires something like restricted delivery mailing. Yes, it is expensive ($4.50). This way, the next time you speak with Doreen it is from a better position : Gee, Doreen you signed for that letter for Mr. G on the ___ of Jan 2010. I don't understand why you're saying it's non-locatable. Now, may I please speak with Mr. G....
 
GOOD IDEA ! MY LETTER IS ON ITS WAY ON TUESDAY AND I JUST RECIEVED MY FEDX STICKER TODAY SO GUN SHIPS TOMORROW. I WILL SEE IF I GET A RESPONCE IF NOT I WILL RESEND THE LETTER AS YOU SUGGESTED.
 
Hi All,

I just became a member of the flying extractor club yesterday. Smith is sending me a call tag.

Here is my issue. I read my manual and no where does it say what specific ammo to use other than the generic statement.

I have many weapons and none say don't use this brand of ammo. Why would I want a gun that can not discharge any round that it was designed to shoot? I can understand some shoot more accurately with brand X or not feed properly due to bullet profile but OOBs are unexceptable.

It would make sense that the recoil spring pressure would be higher to handle higher velocity rounds. I was shooting Yellow Jackets (33gr/1500fps). Energy to cycle the bolt wasn't an issue. I only shot 11 rounds and on the 11th round "pong" flying extractor.
 
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