Time for Revolver Reality Truth?

I'm 31, and own many "new gen" S&W revolvers as well as older ones. I often use my 4" 64 for concealed carry.

There is nothing wrong with the new ones, I am also tired of the constant bashing of new S&W revolvers. People will trash a new 686 up and down but then run out and buy some plastic pop o matic like the Shield and talk about it like it's the best thing ever devised.

Maybe a younger shooter had thought about a new S&W, but someone told him they were **** and so he buys a plastic wondernine made in Croatia instead.....:rolleyes:

So called "S&W revolver fanatics" who trash new S&W revolvers are hypocrites, IMO. You are doing nothing to help your favorite company by buying a used S&W revolver made in 1967. S&W sells boatloads of new revolvers as well as autoloaders and so doesn't seem to be affected by a few people who hate them.

If you want an all steel revolver with no lock, go buy a Ruger GP100 or a Redhawk. I'm also a huge Ruger DA revolver fan.
 
This may just prove I'm an old geezer but I'm having trouble getting what the OP was trying to accomplish. Sounds like a back door way of saying we shouldn't object to the IL. 'scuse me but I do object to the IL and will gladly explain why to anyone who asks...including young people shooting semi autos. I fail to see how that drives them away from shooting or harms the 2nd Amendment cause in any way.

Dave
 
While I generally dont like the IL, I dont let it keep me from buying something I want. My 625 Jm, 642 PP Pro, and my 66 F Comp all have the IL and I do love those revolvers as much as my odler non IL Smiths. I think we sometimes get to far to the right on this issue when in reality its something the general shooting public does'nt see as an issue.
 
With S&W the lock verses no lock is not the problem as there are plenty of both out there and used revolvers in great shape are still cheaper then new ones in most cases. The real problem is getting new shooters past the hi cap semi auto pistol because to young people that's where it's at for them based on what they see in the action movies and hear their peers talking about.
My son was zeroing his bolt action rifle last year in NY for an Elk hunting trip in Colorado and when he looked down the firing line there were 15 black semi auto rifles for every bolt action rifle on the line. It's the same at my shooting club here in Arkansas because when I go I'm usually one of the few shooting revolvers and bolt action rifles.
 
Around here Revolvers in Gun & Pawn Shops are outnumbered by 20 to 1 or more,One of My 13 year old Son's Favorite guns to take to the Range is My 4" Stainless Python it & the 15-22 go every trip to the range,Most newer shooters tend to focus on the Semi Auto's and gun shops have tons of Glocks & XD's on the shelf & from what little I have overheard most gun shops try to push the Glock/XD,While I do enjoy My AR-15 & 15-22 I still prefer My hunting guns to be Blue Steel/Walnut,Many only look @ guns as tools & treat them as such,I guess it's just becoming a plastic world.
 
New shooters are largely only interested in guns they see in movies/TV/video games.

The poster who said they view all revolvers like we view cap and ball pistols was spot on. During LE qualifications the young rookies look at me with amazement when I tell them; "No, I'm not going to rob the stage after work and yes I carry this revolver on the job. No, really." :) They have absolutely no interest in shooting a revolver or learning anything about them. I know, I've tried to spark interest.

Every once in awhile at the local public range an under 40 male will wander over and ask to see/shoot one of my pre lock revolvers. 99% of the time thats it. Rarely does one show interest or learn more about them.

As far as recommending current production revolvers, no. I couldn't do that in good conscience. I tell the few interested that they get a better gun for less money buying used pre lock guns. They simply need to check out the revolver thoroughly before purchasing. As they would with any major purchase.

I don't care about the manufacturers profits or future. I want shooters to get as much gun as they can for their hard earned money. YMMV. Regards 18DAI
 
Ok guys. I have heard, seen and experienced enough. Is it time to set some truths for our next generation?

1) Please stop telling the younger generation to wait for "P&R" M29 deals.

2) Promote buy now products, even with the lock. Get younger people involved in shooting sports, reloading, etc. New guns are great, regardless of old style "mental attitude."

3) Buying guns is the cheap end of the sport. Shooting and providing ammo is a bigger issue. Practice makes it complete.

4) Invest and resale guns as is. Customizing, like cars, is a huge expense, with little return on investment.

These points are not complete, nor perfect. Just a starting point. So I'm willing to hear from others.

3)

Without bothering to read the other replies first - I'll jump right in:
1. I don't give a rat's behind for the Model 29 so, I don't care.

2. I disagree with a "buy what's available" attitude. "What's available" is the **** that nobody else wanted. You need to know your guns, know what you like, and look for the best deal. I'm buying pre-lock Smith's for 60% of the price of new all-the-time because I know exactly what I like and what I'm looking for.

3. I Agree, guns are cheap, ammo is expensive. You have to reload, or be insanely rich, to afford this hobby.

4. I agree on leaving guns alone - with the exception of grips - the right grip on a gun makes all the difference. I truly believe that; if S&W had ever made decent grips for their guns, rather than leaving it to Hogue, UM, etc - that they would have been MUCH more successful and probably would have tamped down the pent-up energy that shifted the whole market to the polymer semi-autos. IMHO, S&Ws with stock magnas bite.
 
With the exception of the desirable and rarer Smiths, I generally see that the older, higher quality Smiths are less expensive than the newer, questionable Smiths. By what I've seen on forums and at gun shows, gun for gun the older Smiths are easier on the wallet. Used 36's are generally cheaper than NIB locked 642's, and I usually see used 29-3+ for a lot less than NIB 29's and 629's. I encourage people to get into shooting by whatever means necessary, and the less expensive route is usually the used (and in most cases better) gun.

Until S&W starts to price their revolvers more competitively, I'm recommending that shooters go the used route. This doesn't necessarily mean P&R, but good S&W's aren't hard to find.

EXACTLY!!!!!
 
I have old Smiths and new ones. I like my new Smiths as well as my old ones. I am NOT a collector. I am a shooter and shoot what I own. I will admit to having entirely too many for any rational person but I DO have a smile on my face.

Continually slamming the new revolvers is not very productive in my view. Especially since my shooting tests give them a GOOD (might I say EXCELLENT) bill of health.

Dale53

Please don't take this the wrong way but if we don't keep slamming S&W for the bad guns they are putting out things will never get better just worst. Barrels flying down range, finishes coming off. Barrels not screwed on strignt, and so on and so on. Glad your guns that are 100% lots of people are not that lucky.
Take care. Mike
 
The Great IL Debate...again. I am a well over 50 type. I got the first S&W in a long line of those in 1978. It was a M10 HB and it was only a loner from the first PD I worked for. Back then, revolvers were THE law enforcement handguns. I envied the older guys who had to buy their own and had m19's and M27/28, etc. I did own a Colt Combat Commander that I liked but didn't shoot as well as my revolver.

Times change and technology moves on. I own a plastic pistol and carry it for serious social encounters. Its effective and if damaged or taken into evidence, I can easily get another. It holds a good many effective rounds of ammo and is easy to conceal year round. Its a tool, period.

Revolvers are what make me excited in the firearm arena. I like Colts, S&W's, Rugers and Dan Wessons...I've even had a Taurus or two. I had a 29-2 made in the 70's that was a lemon. I have a later model 629 with the dreaded IL and MIM, etc. It is a fine revolver with a great trigger and has fired many, many .44 Mag loads without any issues. I think that, like people, I go by the individual. Some of us old Geezers will damn anything "new fangled".

I go to the indoor range and rarely see anybody shooting revolvers these days, young or older. That's OK. To each his own. I like my revolvers for both utility and asthetics. The point is to get what you like and enjoy it. I like to introduce the uninitiated to revolvers if they are interested and I do so.
 
I agree people need to stop bashing the new revolvers, especially to someone who just bought one. Even if you firmly believe the new ones suck, telling that to someone who just dropped $1000 on one doesn't do any good.

I also think the new guns are just as good as the old. The old guns are awesome, beautiful, shoot great, and just sweet guns to have. So are the new guns. From what I've seen, the problems with the new guns may be real, but they're over exaggerated.

I agree that it's a shame the younger shooters don't care about revolvers! I'm 19 and my only handgun is a new 29-10. When I go to the range to shoot I'm usually the only guy with a revolver, especially a big bore, there. People usually don't think it's cool until the bang dwarfs all the other guns lol. In my opinion, the best overall gun (looks, value, fun, variety of calibers, etc) is a revolver. A plastic gun may be better for a shootout, but no one goes to the range and says "Wow, look at that guy with the awesome Glock."
 
The reality around here is young guys have almost zero interest in revolvers. They see them as an obsolete weapon platform. There is some interest in J frames as casual carry guns, but if someone is going to wear a belt and holster they are going to carry a semi auto with double the revolvers ammo payload.

That being said you will sometimes find a younger guy who like revolvers. That guy should be cultivated revolver wise but you don't find a guy under 30 who is interested in carrying a K frame concealed very often.

Sad but those are the facts. Young guys view carrying a six shooter about like we view carrying a cap a ball revolver.

I was IWBing a 686P 3in for about a year and half from age 22-23, had to sell it but will be getting another soon. I have multiple S&W revolvers and have no quams about carrying any of them. I am 24 years old at this time. What you said is not fact. I will however never sell my CS-1 3in.
 
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Basically, my main argument is that the "older generation" always thinks the "older stuff is better".

I think the real truth is that many people are resistant to change. It's just human nature, I'm sure when I'm much older I will be the same way, "when I got into shooting we didn't have this, and that, and laser guided bullets........etc...."

If you grew up shooting when S&W's were hand fitted, you won't think a CNC and MIM revolver is any good. If you grew up in the "era of technology" like I did, you're more accepting of new technology.

I am a firm believer that the "problems" of S&W's new revolvers are magnified by the internet. When someone buys a used Model 10-8 made in 1981 and it has issues, they really can't blame S&W as much. But when a guy buys a new 686 with issues, before sending it back to the factory he goes on every internet forum bashing the gun and S&W and then starts a countdown of the days his gun has been gone..........and then half the time you never hear from him again because the "problem" got corrected and he got his gun back in 8 days.

How many guys back in the 1930's got a new S&W with a crooked barrel, bad timing, spits lead etc. Back in those days you just brought it back to the store and they gave you a new one, and the shop owner shipped the lemon back to S&W. Guys weren't jumping on their laptops and Blackberries to trash the new 32-20 M&P they just bought that was a piece of garbage.
 
I guess when Hollywood gets around to a remake of Dirty Harry, he will carry a Glock with an extended mag. "Did I fire 26 rounds or just 25?"
I like my revolvers without a safety and my autos with one. I think the whole P&R thing is just about liking older guns, because it's sure not about quality. I don't see any problem with M&M parts, I've never seen one fail, and my old Colts and my K-22 have frame mounted firing pins. When I can afford it, I will buy a 5 screw, but if a new gun is priced right, I will check it out.
 
Mark III Colts also use Sintered parts, and so do Dan Wesson revolvers. Sintering was an early form of MIM.

MIM parts are here to stay, many gunmakers use them including Kimber and Ruger is starting to use MIM in their revolvers.

If they are done right, there are many advantages to MIM including more precise tolerances, less hand fitting, and smoother out of the box actions.

There have been PLENTY of failures with hammer mounted firing pins, the side to side play of the pin during firing can weaken and break the pin. Then, the gun is out of service and a new firing pin needs to be fitted. The frame mounted pins do not have this issue, and in the unlikely event a pin breaks, it's a 5 minute job to drop a new one in.
 
Hmmm..... 44 years shooting revolvers and I've seen exactly one broken hammer mounted firing pin. On a K-22 that the owner insisted on frequently dry firing. Despite admonitions not to do that. Oh well, some learn by doing.

While breaking frame mounted firing pins is not something I've seen, I have witnessed PLENTY of light strikes from S&W revolvers with frame mounted firing pins. I experienced it myself with a 3 inch 65. The cure was an extended firing pin from Apex IIRC. My smith installed it and I dumped the gun.

If S&W would have made the frame mounted firing pins long enough to insure ignition, rather than shorter so they could pass a California drop test, Apex and Cylinder & Slide would not have sold so many extended firing pins.

So, is that an example of the "era of technology" ? Or just another example of cost cutting and poor quality? :) Regards 18DAI
 
Once upon a time, a few years ago, in this galaxy - etc, I was standing around the gun counter at an Academy. There stood this really neato gun; a Rossi .38 spec, fixed sights, 3 inch barrel, new, for the princely sum of $207 + tax. About 10 minutes later, I was walking out the door with a brand new revolver and a box of .38 spec ammo. Keep in mind I've been shooting for 40ish years and hadn't owned a revolver since I sold my 2" M10 and my Colt Agent some years ago.

Get this; I thought - ya know, I should be able to shoot better since this one has a 3" barrel instead of the previous 2" barrel...

Well, another Rossi and a couple Taurii later, after tiring of sending them back to Miami every month or two, I ran across a used Smith 686.

And then I was hooked - hook, line and sinker.

Now the other brands are gone, I have a pile of Smiths in the safe, and a box full of reloading gear. I will say I almost kept a mint Colt DS 3" I ran across - but instead traded it for a Smith because there's no parts for the Colts.

Neither old, nor new, DA, SA only, nor even brand matter to the true six-gunner!

There's nothing like spinning the cylinder on wheelgun!

It doesn't matter how you get here, just get here.
 
My 16 year old son had a yearning to get a gun, so I agreed to "buy" his Browning shotgun from him so that he had some cash. He'll make more than enough money by detasseling to "buy" the shotgun back (o.k., it's a loan, but don't tell his Mom).

We went to several gun shops and what does he fall in love with? A Sig P226 in .45. It was rather beat up and I wasn't crazy about buying ammo for it. We held off and found a LNIB Sig P226 in 9mm. It's a Certified Pre-owned rated as "excellent" by Sig. $570 with case, 2 magazines, papers, and a Blackhawk holster. It literally looks like a new gun.

He's seen all of my S&W revolvers, but didn't even consider buying one for himself.
 
Like I said in my post the lock or MIM parts isn't the real issue here it's unless you start with a very young child who respects you and teach them to shoot a revolver the younger set doesn't want revolvers period.

I also think that because we still live in an age where there are a lot of pre lock and post lock revolvers for sale the decision is solely up to the person who is putting his or her money where their mouth is and buying whatever he or she likes. The plain truth is there is no right or wrong answer to this question just people trying to convince the people on the other side that they are wrong.
 
One of the big things that kept me from going over to the "darkside" of uber-high caps and plastic guns is that I've been shooting since a young age and I was always stressed to place my shots as accurately as possible. I didn't grow up straight into revolvers but I did a LOT of disciplined target shooting, including a NRA smallbore program starting at age 12, and Schutzen matches with my dad. When I was about 16 I started doing some pistol matches with him and even then it was with auto loaders but I always watched the people with revolvers thinking that they must know something that I didn't. I figured out that they did know something that I didn't, they knew that by keeping good fundamentals their guns were inherently more accurate than most anything else available. If we want our younger generation to become interested in revolvers we need to teach them to become more interested in accuracy, seeing the look on someone's face when they post their first target of one ragged hole is the sort of thing that will have them coming back for more, something that is much more easily accomplished with a smooth wheel gun than a glock or an xd.
 
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