Timney Trigger Install

[Lorelei]

I normally say the trigger group has nothing to do with ejection issues, but this situation has made me rethink this. So taking what you said, regarding the bolt not fully retracting, it causes me to think. Obviously, the trigger group is not an entity unto itself. It gets cocked while the bolt is retracting, after the gun is fired. So the trigger group is a component in the whole process of semi-auto fire and is a factor in slowing down the bolt's rearward travel.

Now I'm a printer/farmer and certainly no engineer or firearms expert, but is it possible the trigger group could actually cause stovepipes and FTE? It is causing influence on the bolt during its travel... correct? Since it is part of the whole process, why would it be any less of a possible cause of FTE as say bent/dirty bolt rails?

Just thinking out load & wonder if others really understand how a trigger group interacts with the bolt group?

I get what you're saying but it seems to go against some of what you said earlier about light strikes. The hammer spring is weak enough to strike the hammer too lightly to fire at times so if anything the bolt should retract even easier than normal if I'm understanding this all correctly.

 

[Lorelei]

Is it possible the Timney is misaligned?

When I first installed my Jard I had it misaligned and it caused problems similar to what Jim describes except that it misfired about every other round. You could be onto something.

 

[Dirt Dart]

I normally say the trigger group has nothing to do with ejection issues, but this situation has made me rethink this. So taking what you said, regarding the bolt not fully retracting, it causes me to think. Obviously, the trigger group is not an entity unto itself. It gets cocked while the bolt is retracting, after the gun is fired. So the trigger group is a component in the whole process of semi-auto fire and is a factor in slowing down the bolt's rearward travel.

Now I'm a printer/farmer and certainly no engineer or firearms expert, but is it possible the trigger group could actually cause stovepipes and FTE? It is causing influence on the bolt during its travel... correct? Since it is part of the whole process, why would it be any less of a possible cause of FTE as say bent/dirty bolt rails?

Just thinking out load & wonder if others really understand how a trigger group interacts with the bolt group?

I had a light strike issue when I installed an ALG trigger group in my 15-22, using the original S&W hammer spring. I was getting about 8% LS/FTF with four different types of ammo.

I changed out the spring and used the one that came with the ALG trigger, which improved the depth of the strike, but did not fully correct the problem. I had to disassemble and clean the bolt components before the problem "completely" went away.

I could see how the force of the hammer spring could cause extraction issues if it were strong enough. The bolt does have to push back against the spring pressure to cycle.

I also think the resting geometry of the hammer could have an effect on the bolt cycling. For instance, if the hammer comes to rest with a slightly forward angle against the bolt, the amount of force it would take to move it could increase from the angle. Unfortunately, I have found no way to check the resting angle of a hammer while in battery.

In an AR action, this would make no difference. But the 15-22 bolt is lighter and does not move with the force of the AR gas system.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I get what you're saying but it seems to go against some of what you said earlier about light strikes. The hammer spring is weak enough to strike the hammer too lightly to fire at times so if anything the bolt should retract even easier than normal if I'm understanding this all correctly.

I was thinking the same however that assumes the forces that pull the hammer forward are the same as the forces that reset the trigger & cock the hammer. As I said, I'm no expert but seems to me the force required to reset are much greater than the forces to go forward. Pulling the trigger does a lot of the work during firing but the bolt has to reset everything by itself.

 

[Lorelei]

I'm no expert either but was just offering up my thought process. Hopefully we can get the issue figured out because Timneys are popular triggers.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I also think the resting geometry of the hammer could have an effect on the bolt cycling. For instance, if the hammer comes to rest with a slightly forward angle against the bolt, the amount of force it would take to move it could increase from the angle. .

Was thinking the same myself.

 

[zload]

Why not call Timney and ask them... and bring up the shim sizing issue as well. Seems to me if they are offering a shim for the 15-22 install specifically and yet it doesn't fit something somewhere is not right. I've got a Timney trigger for my LR-308 and it is a different setup than a standard AR15 trigger even though the LR-308 uses a AR15 FCG. Something (possibly marketing) made them offer a different trigger.

 

[stavman11]

I am REALLY wondering now guys


I always assumed my Stove Pipes where technique issues... Now I am re-thinking It..

Now I have put my Timney in my M&P Sport... Loved it...

cabela's is 1 mile from my House.... thinking maybe i need a CMC Trigger to TRY Out....

hmmmm

 

[AJB1228]

I have the same issues with my Timney and slidefire. I'm starting to think CMC is the way to go for the 15-22. I always blamed the FTF on the ammo but it still happens with the good stuff and a clean rifle.

 

[AJB1228]

All the rounds that don't fire have a small indention where u can see the firing pin hit ever so slightly.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

All the rounds that don't fire have a small indention where u can see the firing pin hit ever so slightly.

Yep, that is what mine did & what I call a light strike. I'm assuming it is a light strike, as I can't measure the force exerted, however I was using top of the line new ammo (CCI Mini Mag) and because the issue went away when I changed to the CMC trigger... but still used the same box of ammo.

 

[mp15.22]

Yep, that is what mine did & what I call a light strike. I'm assuming it is a light strike, as I can't measure the force exerted, however I was using top of the line new ammo (CCI Mini Mag) and because the issue went away when I changed to the CMC trigger... but still used the same box of ammo.

All your trouble with the Timney Trigger made me glad that i went with the CMC instead. I heard that trigger has issues with the 15-22 and its not so good with slide fire stocks.

 

[AJB1228]

I had this Timney trigger for over a year. I think I might order a CMC in the the near future. I saw on timneys website u can send it in and have a heavier spring put in. I wonder if it would be worth it.

 

[AJB1228]

mp15.22 I saw your video and does yours always work without any malfunctions? Mine works great with the Timney except for the FTF I get every mag or every other two mags.

 

[mp15.22]

mp15.22 I saw your video and does yours always work without any malfunctions? Mine works great with the Timney except for the FTF I get every mag or every other two mags.

Like spreading butter on a hot cob of corn

 

[Rundover]

Maybe its a timing issue. Everything needs to work in the right order at the right time. If the hammer is lighter it may be moving faster than stock but not have the mass to hit the firing pin hard enough. The bolt may be retracting faster as well do to the lighter spring tension on the hammer and not giving enough time to properly eject and also changing the trajectory of the exiting spent shell.
Can you do a slow motion video so we can see what is happening? I actually did this on my Glock 22 conversion kit to see why I was getting allot of stove pipes.

 

[mp15.22]

Maybe its a timing issue. Everything needs to work in the right order at the right time. If the hammer is lighter it may be moving faster than stock but not have the mass to hit the firing pin hard enough. The bolt may be retracting faster as well do to the lighter spring tension on the hammer and not giving enough time to properly eject and also changing the trajectory of the exiting spent shell.
Can you do a slow motion video so we can see what is happening? I actually did this on my Glock 22 conversion kit to see why I was getting allot of stove pipes.

Sure give me about a hr to load the video on youtube.

 

[mp15.22]

Here you go sir...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSpBIngjeOc

 

[stavman11]

I went shooting Monday... and Focused on my Slidefire and Technique

I had only 1 issue, and that was with a 50rd drum, but was my Technique issue, was like 4th rd, then dumped the rest of the Mag

Shot about 5 more 25rd mags... No issues at all.....

Thinking Technique is a bigger issue than most things.... But I am plannning on getting a CMC Trigger... just to try it... and my Timney will go in my S&W Sport


Now when sw15.22 shoots his it appears he is gripping the VFG pretty well.... Seems he has His 15-22 dialed in well and has his Technique perfected...

 

[stavman11]

Ok went shooting again Yesterday Guys...

I tried to recreate the issues i have had in the Past with Stove Pipes..never really had Light Strikes...

50rd drum... plink..plink..plink.. burst... feed issue (drum issue) then full drum DUMP
shot 6 25rd Mags..... did plinking... small Bursts... plinking.... some FULL mag Dumps

Not 1 issue at all...... So am thinking it was not a Trigger issue but the broken Firing Pin and possibly the extractor they replaced at S&W...

So FYI Guys....