Titanium versus Scandium

[Dave686]

Thanks again. I’m afraid metallurgy papers would go right over my head.

It's that way for most people, the marketing guys counted on that. Scandium is a marketing tool. But thats cool. If someone will pay a ton more for it, maybe it will keep the costs of the gun I want down.

Of course I'm not wanting to buy a J-frame that's as light as I can get it and then stuff .357 Mags in it. However I would like to get a Model 60 and have the .357 option if I so desired.

In the meantime when I want to carry something that small, I have to settle for a Model 36 No Dash I bought 46 years ago loaded with .38+P Hydra Shoks.

 

[Beju]

It's that way for most people, the marketing guys counted on that. Scandium is a marketing tool. But thats cool. If someone will pay a ton more for it, maybe it will keep the costs of the gun I want down.

Of course I'm not wanting to buy a J-frame that's as light as I can get it and then stuff .357 Mags in it. However I would like to get a Model 60 and have the .357 option if I so desired.

In the meantime when I want to carry something that small, I have to settle for a Model 36 No Dash I bought 46 years ago loaded with .38+P Hydra Shoks.

Scandium in alloy revolvers allows use of magnum cartridges in a lightweight package. Scandium in the SW1911s is functionally a marketing tool for all but super-high round count shooters who might actually crack an aluminum frame.

FYI, if you're talking about the old 129 gr +P Hydra-Shok and not the new 130 gr +P Hydra Shok Deep line, that old Hydra-Shok usually doesn't expand from 2" barrels. There's an argument that 148gr wadcutters would have better terminal ballistics with their sharp leading edge while having less recoil.

 

[107driver]

Thanks

As always here, I am humbled and appreciative of the expertise--and civility in the face of inexperience.

As to part II of my question, any idea why they no longer produce the 342?

 

[Beju]

As always here, I am humbled and appreciative of the expertise--and civility in the face of inexperience.

As to part II of my question, any idea why they no longer produce the 342?

FWIU, the 342 was made due to some police departments requesting a version of the 340 that was .38 Special +P only. It takes fewer guaranteed sales than many think for S&W to make a simple change like that (just ream the cylinder for .38 Special instead of .357 Magnum).

S&W doesn't sell huge amounts of scandium J-frames (at least not compared to 642/442 variants), so there's probably not a strong business case for more than the 4 current variations (340PD, 340PD no-lock, 360 PD, 340 M&P) that they have.

If a firearms distributor wanted to order 100+ 342s, S&W would probably bring back the 342, at least as a distributor exclusive. It would just be a different coating on the no-lock scandium J-frame, and using the new 642UC's stainless barrel shroud.

It's important to remember that the end user isn't S&W's main customer. Customer importance starts with the distributors, then the gun stores, then police departments, then Joe on the street.

 

[jfleisher]

Smith & Wesson 329 Airlite, Scandium/Aluminum alloy frame, titanium cylinder.

About half the weight of a standard 29 or 629.

https://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=687989&stc=1&d=1720399999

 

[Rubone]

Here is a full titanium Taurus 450T Tracker in 45 Colt. The ammo weighs about as much as the gun!

 

[Dave Lively]

When scandium revolvers first came out I read the sole source of the mineral was Russia. I hope S&W has a big stockpile of it somewhere if they want to keep selling 340s.

 

[murphydog]

When scandium revolvers first came out I read the sole source of the mineral was Russia. I hope S&W has a big stockpile of it somewhere if they want to keep selling 340s.

The Sc alloy guns are not currently listed on the S & W website. Don't know if they are on a production pause or discontinued.

 

[Beju]

The Sc alloy guns are not currently listed on the S & W website. Don't know if they are on a production pause or discontinued.

The website must've been having issues when you looked, because I'm seeing the new 327 WR, 340PD, M&P 340, Governor (didn't even know about that one), 327 snub and TRR8, R8, 360 PD, and 329 PD listed on there when I searched scandium frame revolvers.

 

[murphydog]

The website must've been having issues when you looked, because I'm seeing the new 327 WR, 340PD, M&P 340, Governor (didn't even know about that one), 327 snub and TRR8, R8, 360 PD, and 329 PD listed on there when I searched scandium frame revolvers.

The only two handguns that come up with “Scandium” in the search function are two 1911 pistols. The revolvers mentioned may be alloy but aluminum framed or with titanium (cylinders).

 

[CH4]

Aluminum, scandium or 220, 221, whatever it takes. I sure enjoy my 342PD for summer carry while wearing shorts; I appreciate my 396 for its same qualities. Definitely meant to be carried more than shot.

 

[Beju]

The only two handguns that come up with “Scandium” in the search function are two 1911 pistols. The revolvers mentioned may be alloy but aluminum framed or with titanium (cylinders).

That sounds like you're searching under "Pistols" instead of "Revolvers."

The revolvers I mentioned are scandium alloy frames (0.05% to 0.15% scandium, 7.5% to 8.3% zinc, 1.6% to 2.2% magnesium, 1.6% to 2.0% copper, 0.02% to 0.04% chromium, 0.05% to 0.15% zirconium, and 87 to 90% aluminum per US patent US6711819B2) with titanium or steel cylinders (in the case of the M&P 340).

 

[BC38]

Here is a full titanium Taurus 450T Tracker in 45 Colt. The ammo weighs about as much as the gun!

And here is a Taurus 617 TTi (TTi=Total Titanium)
Titanium frame and cylinder. Only the lockworks and barrel liner are made of steel.
7-shot 357 magnum that weighs just under 20 ounces empty and less than 24 ounces when fully loaded with 7 rounds of 158gr 357 magnum ammo.
Just for comparison, a steel 5-shot J-frame weighs more EMPTY than this one does when fully loaded with 7 rounds.
Its a handful, but the ported barrel actually helps tame recoil a LOT.

 

[Paul105]

Regarding the 396 (44 special): I know the literature says the frame is aluminum - any chance it's actually scandium?

 

[Forefinger]

Such an informative thread. I learn much about the scandium and titanium metals in my 360PD. Thanks for the education.

 

[BC38]

Titanium is an amazing material.

Stronger per pound than pretty much any other metal known to man.

I can twist my titanium-framed glasses into a pretzel and when I let go of them they snap right back into their original shape like nothing ever happened.

I don't think there is any other metal with comparable yield strength or "memory".

Pretty incredible stuff.