TJ's Registered Magnum - What Should He Do? (NEW PHOTOS ADDED 11/29/2007)

I've been following this since it started and can see both sides. I have a M1 Garand that when I ordered from CMP was going to restore, but when it arrived I found by the SN it went to the USMC at Parris Island in January of 1944. It has earned it's dings and scrapes and wear. By it in my gun cabinet is a 98k Mauser seized in a meth lab several years ago, rough enough that many feel I should refinish, but all I have done is firelap the bore trying to get it to shoot well. I also just put a LOT of time and effort into getting a 1905 .38 parts gun back into service. It required a new cylinder, ejector, etc. to turn out to be a great shooter [sitting in the desk right now, loaded]. I am in the process of stripping a 27-2 of Duracoat to bring it back to it's polished blue appearance,even though I was told again today, that almost all the blue underneath is worn off. There are as many opinions as individuals and I for one would like to know more of the history of this fine gun. Only then can I make my decision as to what my opinion will be on it. If it is due to neglect, I would side with giving it the TLC I think it deserves, and refinish. If it acquired that abuse through battle scars, clean it as well as possible. If through a suicide, I really don't know, but I would probably decide to refinish to give it some dignity back.
 
...in the meantime, maybe we could turn down the lights on TJ's RM a little??? Great thread. Thanks, Jerry
 
I was hopeful that TJ would email some more photos to post. I have not received any yet. I do not believe that it has been lettered.
 
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+1 on restoring it. Think of it this way, if you purchased a vintage Rolls Royce that was rusted, with flat tires and torn leather on the seats, but runs, would you really feel good about driving it around so you could be seen in it? I think you would probably try to get it restored.
 
By the way, the gun has been lettered. For all of you S&WCA members, there is a
registered magnum file that has this gun in it. All of the relevant information is in
that file.

The gun appears to be correct - except for the finish !

There would be no additional information in a letter , as to what the Sheriff did with the gun.

Later, Mike Priwer
 
Boy this has been a great thread, but there is one salient piece of data that is missing. How much does TJ currently have in the gun?

I don't expect TJ to provide an answer, because I sure wouldn't tell you how much I paid either, but what is the value of the gun right now?

If you were in the Leave It As It Is Camp - what would you pay for a gun like this?

If you were on the Refinish side, - what would you pay for this gun? How much would you put into the refinish or restoration and how much would the gun be worth after refinishing?

Which would increase in value faster - the gun as is or with a good refinish/restoration?

If it's hard to find a qualified refinisher/restorer now - what's it going to be like 30 years from now?

My apologies if taking this to the monetary level seems crass, but what better way is there to make this decision?
 
Clang444: That is a good way to look at this. If the value is rather low because of its poor condition from neglect, then a proper restoration may not make it as desireable as a 100% NIB gun or even one with 60% original finish with no pits and rust, just honest holster wear, it still should have more desirablity than a similar gun in poor shape. Go price some Turnbull restored guns and you will see I ain't blow'n smoke!
 
It extremely hard to set a price without more details and pictures but I'll throw out some numbers just for grins. Lets say the gun functions O.K. is worth 900 bucks "as is" with rusting and slightly pitted barrel. Another 800 bucks for a O.K. restoration and rebluing, and $200 to restore and refinish the grips. The refinished gun would look pretty good but far from perfect because of extensive polishing to rejuvenate the finish. It would not be "jaw dropping" beautiful, but it would be a nice gun to shoot and show off and would recoup that amount invested someday not too far away. A nice original RM for a little more money would be worth more money faster and would keep appreciating in value MUCH faster! If the gun was left "as is" it will still appreciate, and probably at a faster rate than the refinished gun.
 
If the gun was left "as is" it will still appreciate, and probably at a faster rate than the refinished gun.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this notion. Rather, I would think that, in its present condition, its
going to be a hard gun to sell/resell, particularly over time at a higher and higher price.
Certainly someone will want it, but I think its market is going to be more limited, in its
present condition, than if it were refinished.

Consider the KCPD guns. Most have been refinished at least once, perhaps twice, and yet
they sell very well. Some of them are even in relatively poor condition, interenally and
externally, but generally they are presentable. That is the big issue with the gun in this
discussion - it just isn't very presentable, and that will affect how saleable it really is.

Later, Mike Priwer
 
What is harsh in the world of used firearms is that condition is extremely important in their perceived worth. I own a very nicely refinished Mauser "Bolo" C96. The only reason I could afford it was that it had been refinished. My WW1 Luger is original and worth substantially more because it is in good shape and will appreciate accordingly. A great gun with history like TJ's is caught in the gap of being a desirable type, but a poor condition piece. I like the RR analogy earlier as being a good example.
 
I like the RR analogy earlier as being a good example.
Click to expand...
Deacon,
Please explain the "RR analogy". I'm too lazy to look back thru 5 pages for it.
icon_biggrin.gif
I don't recall that one.
 
Deacon, If I may,
R and R is the Rolls Royce analogy. If you have a beat up Rolls, then you should restore it back to pristine condition. As posted by the Virginian about 6 posts up.

this is compared to my analogy of a wife after 20 years. you love them for their intrinsic values. don't need to have them go for cosmetic surgery just because they gained a few pounds or sag here or there.

granted, this revolver has been through the ringer. but i still wouldn't change it.
 
Duhhh.....Thanks! I remember now. My memory span isn't even as long as my........................ what were we talkin' about?
icon_biggrin.gif
 
with this event http://www.barrett-jackson.com/
around the corner, i am not sure the RR analogy works. every year the same line is repeated on the cars, "an older restoration", or "a budget restoration" the condition of these autos is every thing and a recent resoration on top of an older restoration with them is a good thing. but, it is also stated often that the sale price of some of the cars does not meet the cost of the restoration. the only ones that do very well seem to be hemi powered 'cudas that are "lettered" that way.
 
This has been a very interesting thread, and I have enjoyed reading the different points of view. Hopefully we will hear more about the ultimate fate of the gun in question!
 
Sorry It took so long for me to get on here and reply to you all. Yes this is my RM- I'm going to get some more pictures on here soon.
Gun has been lettered by Roy- Not much info other than being shipped 2-16-39 to Sheriff A.C. Ammen- shipped to him at the court house in Decatur IL., 3.5 inch barrel, Mcgivern gold bead front sight.
RM is all original- stocks numbered to gun- Mechanically fine- bore decent, chambers ok- nothing that can't be soaked off.
I have decided soak it in solvent for a while and try to get all the active rust off. Lovingly scrub with brass wool and see what it looks like.
I have VERY LITTLE in this gun- purchased from a young guy who needed money- not sure where he got it from- didn't ask, but the gun apparently never left Macon CO IL- till I bought it and moved in 30 miles away.
Due to the provenance and my proximity to Macon Co- I have no intention to sell it. I think I will clean it up as good as possible and merge it with the other's in the safe.
Thanks for everyone's input- I will send more pictures- before and after the cleaning.
Terry Jones
 
Terry, congratulations on owning a great model of S&W with local history, and thanks for being so good natured with all of our opinions!

You've obviously raised a topic of great interest to your fellow collectors, and we've had a wonderful time with it! -- Jim
 
Mr. Jones,
I agree with Mr. Supica, congratulations! Thanks for sharing with us. It's been a joy reading all the replies.

Bob
 
Terry,

Great acquisition. Since you live so close to where the gun was shipped, I'd spend some time researching Sheriff Ammen's career. You might find some very interesting items to include with his gun. Although our opinions seemed to range over the spectrum on the restoration issue, the one thing that we all seem to agree upon is the historical significance of an old lawman's gun. You might get lucky and find some folks who are still around that remember him.

Bob
 
New photos added 11/29/07 - see page 1. BTW, TJ indicated that he is not interested in selling the RM.
 
Terry, welcome to the place and good luck on the rust control/removal. If you ever head downstate, email me and we can hit some good shops down here!
 
I was Hoping for an Update from TJ...

Terry - Are you out there??? - We would love to know if you have done anything with this interesting gun???:rolleyes:
 
An excellent essay on the aspects of collecting. EDUCATION!

I didn't think Lee used so many words, but this topic sure drew him out.:D

This thread gave me a lot to consider about the collection I inherited and the one I have accumulated myself. There is an old Colt Police Positive in the inherited group, that was (as best I can tell) refinished quite professionally over fifty years ago, it was a display item since my childhood, due to its provenance.

For me, a gun is more than an implement for throwing lead, that's why I'm here (small talk about wars, cigars, cars and bars notwithstanding).

If it weren't for who owned it, who used it and why, I'd be at a glocktalk site comparing kydex, feed ramps and mag releases.;)
 
What a beauty. I have a Triple Lock I got 40yrs ago that looked the same. I got it operational after a period. It still sits on my desk, loaded.
It looks great next to my SAA BP with the hacked off barrel and no site.
No opinion, but you will be from this time on, known as the guy with the old RM.
 
It's deja vu all over again...

Sebago Son- No, I don't worship diplomas. Mine or any other's. They are mere symbols. It's the accomplishment that matters. The experience and acquisition of knowledge. The diploma is just paper.

To the original question, we need to decide two matters. 1. What is the purpose of the revolver? If it is nothing other than a collectible object, then do nothing. Display it as is. If it is a firearm, then some sort of repair would be in order.

But that brings us to issue #2. Can it be repaired? And at what cost? If a master smith demands 3K to make it good, is that a wise investment? How much can we spend? Every man will have a different response to that.

As for me, I would not have bought that gun at any price.
 
I have a number of marked, scratched or battered S&Ws. A 27-2 with someones SS#, a 38-44 w/ blood mark, a 38 no dash with very tacky nickle, these are just fine shooting though appearance challenged, and that's nowhere near all of them.. Good looks don't mean poor performance. My Parker double even suffered from some previous owner scrubbing the " brown stuff off it":rolleyes:, but it's murder on bobwhite.

Guess I'm just not educated enough...
I'll try to do better, honest.:D
 
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