TJ's Registered Magnum - What Should He Do? (NEW PHOTOS ADDED 11/29/2007)

[Deacon KC]

I've been following this since it started and can see both sides. I have a M1 Garand that when I ordered from CMP was going to restore, but when it arrived I found by the SN it went to the USMC at Parris Island in January of 1944. It has earned it's dings and scrapes and wear. By it in my gun cabinet is a 98k Mauser seized in a meth lab several years ago, rough enough that many feel I should refinish, but all I have done is firelap the bore trying to get it to shoot well. I also just put a LOT of time and effort into getting a 1905 .38 parts gun back into service. It required a new cylinder, ejector, etc. to turn out to be a great shooter [sitting in the desk right now, loaded]. I am in the process of stripping a 27-2 of Duracoat to bring it back to it's polished blue appearance,even though I was told again today, that almost all the blue underneath is worn off. There are as many opinions as individuals and I for one would like to know more of the history of this fine gun. Only then can I make my decision as to what my opinion will be on it. If it is due to neglect, I would side with giving it the TLC I think it deserves, and refinish. If it acquired that abuse through battle scars, clean it as well as possible. If through a suicide, I really don't know, but I would probably decide to refinish to give it some dignity back.

 

[j38]

...in the meantime, maybe we could turn down the lights on TJ's RM a little??? Great thread. Thanks, Jerry

 

[RKmesa]

I was hopeful that TJ would email some more photos to post. I have not received any yet. I do not believe that it has been lettered.

 

[The Virginian]

+1 on restoring it. Think of it this way, if you purchased a vintage Rolls Royce that was rusted, with flat tires and torn leather on the seats, but runs, would you really feel good about driving it around so you could be seen in it? I think you would probably try to get it restored.

 

[mikepriwer]

By the way, the gun has been lettered. For all of you S&WCA members, there is a
registered magnum file that has this gun in it. All of the relevant information is in
that file.

The gun appears to be correct - except for the finish !

There would be no additional information in a letter , as to what the Sheriff did with the gun.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[clang444]

Boy this has been a great thread, but there is one salient piece of data that is missing. How much does TJ currently have in the gun?

I don't expect TJ to provide an answer, because I sure wouldn't tell you how much I paid either, but what is the value of the gun right now?

If you were in the Leave It As It Is Camp - what would you pay for a gun like this?

If you were on the Refinish side, - what would you pay for this gun? How much would you put into the refinish or restoration and how much would the gun be worth after refinishing?

Which would increase in value faster - the gun as is or with a good refinish/restoration?

If it's hard to find a qualified refinisher/restorer now - what's it going to be like 30 years from now?

My apologies if taking this to the monetary level seems crass, but what better way is there to make this decision?

 

[The Virginian]

Clang444: That is a good way to look at this. If the value is rather low because of its poor condition from neglect, then a proper restoration may not make it as desireable as a 100% NIB gun or even one with 60% original finish with no pits and rust, just honest holster wear, it still should have more desirablity than a similar gun in poor shape. Go price some Turnbull restored guns and you will see I ain't blow'n smoke!

 

[Farmer17]

It extremely hard to set a price without more details and pictures but I'll throw out some numbers just for grins. Lets say the gun functions O.K. is worth 900 bucks "as is" with rusting and slightly pitted barrel. Another 800 bucks for a O.K. restoration and rebluing, and $200 to restore and refinish the grips. The refinished gun would look pretty good but far from perfect because of extensive polishing to rejuvenate the finish. It would not be "jaw dropping" beautiful, but it would be a nice gun to shoot and show off and would recoup that amount invested someday not too far away. A nice original RM for a little more money would be worth more money faster and would keep appreciating in value MUCH faster! If the gun was left "as is" it will still appreciate, and probably at a faster rate than the refinished gun.

 

[mikepriwer]

If the gun was left "as is" it will still appreciate, and probably at a faster rate than the refinished gun.

I don't agree with this notion. Rather, I would think that, in its present condition, its
going to be a hard gun to sell/resell, particularly over time at a higher and higher price.
Certainly someone will want it, but I think its market is going to be more limited, in its
present condition, than if it were refinished.

Consider the KCPD guns. Most have been refinished at least once, perhaps twice, and yet
they sell very well. Some of them are even in relatively poor condition, interenally and
externally, but generally they are presentable. That is the big issue with the gun in this
discussion - it just isn't very presentable, and that will affect how saleable it really is.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[Deacon KC]

What is harsh in the world of used firearms is that condition is extremely important in their perceived worth. I own a very nicely refinished Mauser "Bolo" C96. The only reason I could afford it was that it had been refinished. My WW1 Luger is original and worth substantially more because it is in good shape and will appreciate accordingly. A great gun with history like TJ's is caught in the gap of being a desirable type, but a poor condition piece. I like the RR analogy earlier as being a good example.

 

[handejector]

I like the RR analogy earlier as being a good example.

Deacon,
Please explain the "RR analogy". I'm too lazy to look back thru 5 pages for it.

I don't recall that one.

 

[gtivan]

Deacon, If I may,
R and R is the Rolls Royce analogy. If you have a beat up Rolls, then you should restore it back to pristine condition. As posted by the Virginian about 6 posts up.

this is compared to my analogy of a wife after 20 years. you love them for their intrinsic values. don't need to have them go for cosmetic surgery just because they gained a few pounds or sag here or there.

granted, this revolver has been through the ringer. but i still wouldn't change it.

 

[handejector]

Duhhh.....Thanks! I remember now. My memory span isn't even as long as my........................ what were we talkin' about?

 

[azmick]

with this event http://www.barrett-jackson.com/
around the corner, i am not sure the RR analogy works. every year the same line is repeated on the cars, "an older restoration", or "a budget restoration" the condition of these autos is every thing and a recent resoration on top of an older restoration with them is a good thing. but, it is also stated often that the sale price of some of the cars does not meet the cost of the restoration. the only ones that do very well seem to be hemi powered 'cudas that are "lettered" that way.

 

[n4zov]

This has been a very interesting thread, and I have enjoyed reading the different points of view. Hopefully we will hear more about the ultimate fate of the gun in question!

 

[elinvar23]

Sorry It took so long for me to get on here and reply to you all. Yes this is my RM- I'm going to get some more pictures on here soon.
Gun has been lettered by Roy- Not much info other than being shipped 2-16-39 to Sheriff A.C. Ammen- shipped to him at the court house in Decatur IL., 3.5 inch barrel, Mcgivern gold bead front sight.
RM is all original- stocks numbered to gun- Mechanically fine- bore decent, chambers ok- nothing that can't be soaked off.
I have decided soak it in solvent for a while and try to get all the active rust off. Lovingly scrub with brass wool and see what it looks like.
I have VERY LITTLE in this gun- purchased from a young guy who needed money- not sure where he got it from- didn't ask, but the gun apparently never left Macon CO IL- till I bought it and moved in 30 miles away.
Due to the provenance and my proximity to Macon Co- I have no intention to sell it. I think I will clean it up as good as possible and merge it with the other's in the safe.
Thanks for everyone's input- I will send more pictures- before and after the cleaning.
Terry Jones

 

[JimSupica]

Terry, congratulations on owning a great model of S&W with local history, and thanks for being so good natured with all of our opinions!

You've obviously raised a topic of great interest to your fellow collectors, and we've had a wonderful time with it! -- Jim

 

[VonFatman]

Mr. Jones,
I agree with Mr. Supica, congratulations! Thanks for sharing with us. It's been a joy reading all the replies.

Bob

 

[bettis1]

Terry,

Great acquisition. Since you live so close to where the gun was shipped, I'd spend some time researching Sheriff Ammen's career. You might find some very interesting items to include with his gun. Although our opinions seemed to range over the spectrum on the restoration issue, the one thing that we all seem to agree upon is the historical significance of an old lawman's gun. You might get lucky and find some folks who are still around that remember him.

Bob

 

[RKmesa]

New photos added 11/29/07 - see page 1. BTW, TJ indicated that he is not interested in selling the RM.