To Laser or not to Laser

[Cal44]

Personally I like to keep it simple and not rely on extra equipment that can malfunction when most needed. More weight, more maintenance, more hassle and at the end of the day, most SD situations will more than likely be up close and personal - no Laser needed (IMO).

For me, the Crimson Trace laser grips on a revolver are useful for range training.

For carry, there is a switch on the bottom and you can turn them off.

On J frames, the CT grips are very nice for absorbing recoil and work well with speed loaders.

It's hard to find good J frame grips that are properly relieved for speed loaders.

 

[Bill Raby]

Why would you want to put a kitty toy on your gun? Sure, the kitty cat will have a great time chasing that dot around the room, but you will have a gun pointed at the poor little critter the whole time. Not good.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

Why would you want to put a kitty toy on your gun? Sure, the kitty cat will have a great time chasing that dot around the room, but you will have a gun pointed at the poor little critter the whole time. Not good.

No kittys in our house, ... , anymore!

Seriously though, we are dog-folk.
(our dog would chase the red spot too, just like a kitty)

 

[ldryder]

On a topic where every handgun owner will have their own, possibly highly-subjective opinion and a right-or-wrong answer depends on the preferences of the individual... I enjoyed reading Massad Ayoob's reasoning when writing about his own M&P 340:

"What impressed the hell out of me with the M&P340, were its sights. The front sight is the humongous, glowing night sight that XS Sight Systems calls "The Big Dot." In fast, close work, even in the dark, it lets you get indexed on your target sooner than anything else you'll find atop a J-frame revolver. And, what really sold me, the rear sight is an equally humongous square notch. This allows a proper sight picture if there's time, and pretty much guarantees me 25-yard headshots. The best of both worlds. I also have a Crimson Trace Lasergrip on it as a fallback sighting device."

 

[zogger]

Awhile back I bought a red laser. I used it on and off but now it is no longer on my gun. I did not find it super helpful because you have to sight it in at a specific distance. If you are too close, the the laser dot is hidden by the gun. If you are too far away while you can see the laser dot, you will shoot low if you point the laser at where you want to hit.

I can see it being useful when you can't get your sights on the target or you are holding the gun below eye level. But I really did not find it useful.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

I totally agree about sighting in the laser.

On my 638, the laser is at the top of the right-side grip panel.
Ideally, it should be adjusted so that it stays parallel to the bore axis - so that your point of impact will always be about an inch to the upper left of the red dot, and not vary with distance.

I have it set so that it lines up with the sights (more or less) when I dry fire the gun in my house, which may be about 7 or 8 yards.

When I fired it at the range, I found it very finicky when trying to adjust it with the tiny hex key, so much so that it wasn't worth fussing with.
Also, my middle finger doesn't activate the laser every time, so I would never rely on the laser.

I found it much more useful to focus on the target, the sights, and to use my peripheral vision to see if the red dot was shaking as I pulled the trigger in double-action.

As I said in my initial post, I think it is MOST useful as a training tool to master the double action trigger pull of my small pistol.

BTW, that M&P340 is a beauty, but I don't ever want to fire full load .357s out of a gun that small. I do wish my 638 had a pinned front sight so I could install that tritium. I added bright orange nail polish on mine, but that doesn't glow in the dark.

 

[zogger]

As I said in my initial post, I think it is MOST useful as a training tool to master the double action trigger pull of my small pistol.

If you really want to work on your DA trigger pull, try the Mantis X system. I got one for Christmas and it is helping me a lot to improve my trigger pull.

 

[Doc Holliday 1950]

I bought a laser guide rod for my G43. It cost $199. from Natchez I used it for about 4 sessions at my range,
After that I removed it and put in the original guide rod. I found(FOR ME) that the guide rod laser was a
distraction and I don't want to spend another $250 to $395 for a laser system that's activated by the grips
& be dissapointed again. Maybe my range has one I can rent. Until then
I'll be laserless.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

If you really want to work on your DA trigger pull, try the Mantis X system. ...

I looked it up and it mounts on a rail.
My 638, 686, 629 and GP-100 don't have rails.

The 638 has a fairly heavy double action trigger pull which it's light weight accentuates.
The other revolvers are heavier and easier to fire smoothly.

I will definitely keep the Mantis X in mind as I work on longer distances with my rail equipped pistols.
Thanks for the tip!

 

[SA1911]

I want nothing attached to a self-defense handgun.

I seriously doubt that I'd be looking at a light. I'd be looking at a threat's hands because only hands will kill me. I'd be scanning for other bad guys, and I'd be trying to figure out how I'd be getting the heck outta there before lead starts flying.

 

[BE Mike]

I'm older than dirt. I started noticing my eyesight dimming when I hit 40. I tried night sights extensively and they didn't help me much. I've been intrigued with laser sights since the mid 80's, but never used them until several years ago. They help me immensely, especially in normal room light or lower light conditions. I had been complaining about the accuracy of my new (few months old) Sig P 320 Compact to a buddy of mine. A couple of days ago, I mounted a Crimson Trace CMR 201 to the rail. I took it to the indoor range. Once I sighted it in, I began to shoot at 25 yards (the maximum). I shot 15 shots, off-hand and unsupported. My group was 3-4". I reloaded a couple of more magazines and they were all in there. The laser convinced me that it ain't the gun, it's the older than dirt peepers. Good trigger control is still essential to get good hits, but the laser makes "sighting" much more accurate than iron sights for me. I have 5 Crimson Trace lasers on various guns.

 

[Practical]

If you practice 90% of your live fire withOUT a laser and 90% of your dry fire I believe you will see an improvement.

 

[richardw]

If you practice 90% of your live fire withOUT a laser and 90% of your dry fire I believe you will see an improvement.

In April my eyes will be 76 years old. When I was 27 years old in Recon training I had to qualify with the M1911 minimally as Sharpshooter . I did that. I did that by practicing with the guns as it was issued to me. I learned a bit of edge from a firearms instructor about using iron sights. Well mY are plastic sights today, but you get the idea.

The edge came from forgetting about the miriad of technical challenges sightings a pistol. This is what I was taught.

See the target.
Place the front sight on the strike zone.
Quickly raise up the rear sights to acquire the front sight.
Do not try to be perfect because it can get you killed.
Once the front sight is on target just get the rear sight close to where it should be and pull the trigger.

No, you will not get ten points for the hit, but you will really hurt the bad guy. A couple more rounds that way will end his pain.

Ok, that sounds simplistic, I know. However, combat and therefore close quarter self defense gunfighting are not target practice. They are practical keep alive measures

after four tours in Nam using both long and hand guns, I can testify that you stay alive by hitting the enemy whether you kill him or not. He is going to do just what I explained. If you worry about precision aiming, you will lose the fight.

None of what I wrote above applies to target shooting. Of course targets are not shooting at you. The simple rule for, gunfight is to hit the enemy anyway you can as often as you can. If I had not come to understand that my 76 year old eyes would never have made it past 32. It was from 28 to 32 that I had to use the M1911 often. Killing paper or steel is not like killing people who shoot back. She that happens forget theory and hit the bad guy anyway you can while keeping your head down.

 

[Practical]

I guess I will revise my comment then.

If a laser helps you hit your target better, get one and use it.

If you think it will in some cases do it even if you can use iron sights.

My eyes are only 5 decades old, but they can't focus and I can't see without glasses SO I will take every edge, cheat and aid I can get.

I have a laser on my primary revolver and I like it.

 

[Old cop]

I was a working cop for 30 years and involved in three on duty shootings. All but one developed so quickly I didn't even have time to use my sights, and this was well before lasers. I also don't care for the idea of lighting myself up (pinpointing my position) for incoming fire. I have no problem with what others do, just no laser for me.

 

[BE Mike]

I was a working cop for 30 years and involved in three on duty shootings. All but one developed so quickly I didn't even have time to use my sights, and this was well before lasers. I also don't care for the idea of lighting myself up (pinpointing my position) for incoming fire. I have no problem with what others do, just no laser for me.

Thank you for your service. Here's what Crimson Trace says about lasers: Laser Myths Busted | Official Crimson Trace

 

[rockquarry]

Just something to consider, particularly if you're not a skilled shooter...spend the money on ammo and practice a lot. When you're confident you are there and still feel the need for a laser, that's the time to get one. Such gadgets may be useful to some, but I suspect many use them as a crutch to substitute for a lack of skill, much like some rifle shooters reason that a high magnification scope and a very light trigger pull will make them better shooters. Doesn't work that way.

 

[scatter shot]

There are an awful lot of baseless assumptions and down right stupid comments being made by some folks that don't like lasers.
I have Crimson Trace on a Shield 9mm and it is neither bulky, difficult to activate/deactivate or a crutch that diminishes my shooting skills. On the contrary it has greatly assisted me in my dry fire and point and shoot training at home.
When live fire training I use the sights 95% of the time and save a few mags at the end of my range session for shooting with the laser. I can assure you, the laser does not slow me down as some have stated and I am certainly pleased with the results of shots on target.
So, if you don't like a laser on your gun that's fine but don't be making cr*p up to bolster your position, because at the end of the day, most of the anti laser comments are just that, a load of cr*p.

 

[Old cop]

I tried shooting a friend's gun w/a laser but could not get used to it, but that's just me. I was not making up a load of stuff about lasers, just stating why I did not want one. Someone attached an article about them and I'm now more educated so thank you for that but I'm too old to change now.

 

[shouldazagged]

I'm eighty. I have cataracts. I am a Luddite who prefers revolvers and worships at the temple of KISS.

I carry a revolver because I trust it not to fail. I don't want to add something that is more likely than the gun to let me down.

No thanks.

 

[BE Mike]

I'm eighty. I have cataracts. I am a Luddite who prefers revolvers and worships at the temple of KISS.

I carry a revolver because I trust it not to fail. I don't want to add something that is more likely than the gun to let me down.

No thanks.

It's not like if in the unlikely event the laser fails, you are NOT out of luck. Your gun still works and you have iron sights. You also still have any marksmanship skills you have acquired. All I know is that lasers work for me in dim lighting.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

Some of us like lasers. Some of us don't.
I've said what I like about mine and read everyone else's opinion.
I'm tired of this back and forth nit-picking.
The horse is long-dead. Let's not beat it any more.
I'm going to 'unsubscribe' to this thread.

 

[shouldazagged]

It's not like if in the unlikely event the laser fails, you are NOT out of luck. Your gun still works and you have iron sights. You also still have any marksmanship skills you have acquired. All I know is that lasers work for me in dim lighting.

I'm not concerned about being Sierra Oscar Lima. I just don't see the point, for me, of adding something that uses battery power to something that works just fine without it.

As I said, I love the KISS principle.

But if lasers work well for you, that's fine with me.

 

[dcludwig]

I have never been a fan of any lasers or weapon mounted lights.

Also, people saying that lasers are great in no light situations, isn't that breaking one of the main safety rules? Know what's behind the target?

Do you really just cook off rounds in to the darkness because you see your laser dot?

So, if it's daylight and some wacko is running at you with a machete and some friendlies behind him, do you simply shout "please don't hurt me"? No, he's going down, laser or no - friendlies or no. The rule, IMO, is that whenever possible DON'T point a weapon where you are not sure what is beyond. If someone grabs my wallet and runs into a crowd, no, I'm not shooting or drawing for that matter. I shouldn't be drawing unless I feel threatened regardless. If in the dark and I feel threatened, my waiting to ascertain what is behind the threat may well cost me my life. If I'm cooking of rounds it's because my life is in danger. The laser will confirm my round will hit it's target and lessen any chance of an innocent being harmed (my opinion, again) Of course, my EDC has laser, so yeah, I'm biased in that regard

 

[OttoLoader]

When travelling at night gas stations ambient light is good enough to see the perp and what is around and behind. But S&W has put on old fashioned black front sights on the 60-14.
Black sights are pretty useless in real world out in the field use and totally useless at a gas station at night under such conditions.
So rather than fiddling around with tritium night sights that may or may not be to my likings I put on a crimpson trace red laser boot grip. At night the little slide switch is on, the laser is on when I squeeze the button on the grip. This all happens very quickly.
I don't chase the dot I use point shooting techniques but enhanced with the dot, also squeeze the trigger keeping the dot on on target.
I went to use of the laser after trying out one on a Glock 17 at an indoor range with lights dimmed green veridian when they first came out.
Keeping the dot on the target while squeezing the trigger resulted in tighter groups as compared to using the sights.

 

[one eye joe]

OVER 20 YEARS AGO, I TOOK A TWO DAY COURSE OF TRAINING WITH MASSAD AYOOB. HE EXTOLLED THE VIRTUES OF A LASER, AND WE USED A LASER EQUIPPED REVOLVER IN TRAINING, AGAINST PROJECTED SCENARIOS, ON A SCREEN. I WAS SOLD ON THEM SINCE, FOR SD / HD PURPOSES. I HAVE USED THEM ON SEVERAL WEAPONS, FROM A 1911, DOWN TO MY CURRENT M642......

MY 642 WEARS A SET OF CRIMSON TRACE LG-405s. THAT MODEL FEATURES A MOLDED IN AIR CHAMBER, IN THE UPPER AREA OF THE COVERED BACK STRAP. THEY OFFER GREAT GUN CONTROL, AND A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN FELT RECOIL.....

 

[Black Knight]

My thought is in a no light situation a good to high intensity flashlight would be very beneficial. The first thing to remember is to identify your target. That way you don't end up shooting a loved one or a responding police officer. After this a laser might be a good idea if you have the right type of laser. Most people believe the red laser is the best but I learned a good lesson at the Beretta factory in Maryland in 2004. They gave a demonstration between the red and green laser. The red laser light disappeared on dark surfaces. The green laser showed up very well on every surface. If you choose a laser take a serious look at the green laser.

 

[Dvan34]

I just removed one from my Shield .40. In 3 years I have never used it during sessions at the range. I do use a laser bullet for dry-fire. After all this time I just figure it is an extra step and distraction. It also makes it more difficult to find suitable holsters for CC. Plus depending on batteries?
I do have a night sight anyway.

 

[Chipperxd]

So, if it's daylight and some wacko is running at you with a machete and some friendlies behind him, do you simply shout "please don't hurt me"? No, he's going down, laser or no - friendlies or no. The rule, IMO, is that whenever possible DON'T point a weapon where you are not sure what is beyond. If someone grabs my wallet and runs into a crowd, no, I'm not shooting or drawing for that matter. I shouldn't be drawing unless I feel threatened regardless. If in the dark and I feel threatened, my waiting to ascertain what is behind the threat may well cost me my life. If I'm cooking of rounds it's because my life is in danger. The laser will confirm my round will hit it's target and lessen any chance of an innocent being harmed (my opinion, again) Of course, my EDC has laser, so yeah, I'm biased in that regard

first off, don't try to twist my words. second, no I would not shoot if I know my wife, mother, brother etc could possibly be hit if I fired off a round. I would rather get a limp chopped off than shoot where my loved ones could be hit.

 

[jmclfrsh]

I have a Crimson Trace on my .40S&W stainless Beretta 96 and I really like it for home defense, primarily at night.

I live in a nice neighborhood, but I had someone try to break into the house one night about three years ago and when the home alarm went off, they fled. But I was out of bed, pistol in hand, in literally 5-7 seconds or so ( I sleep very lightly) and that laser came in very handy. The french doors were wide open, and they are definitely closed and locked every night. You need a key to open the inside, too. No breaking a window, reaching in and unlocking them.

As I cleared around the stairs using the pie technique, somewhat frightened but confident at the same time, if someone had been standing there it would have been so much faster to pin the laser on their body and pull the trigger without exposing myself completely, something I could not do if I had to look down the sights.

But it was so close I would have just pointed at center mass and fired if I saw a weapon on him or a threatening move and did not have a laser.

The laser worked just fine, though, in the darkness that night. Outside in the full daylight? Pretty much worthless. But that is not what it is designed for. I turn it off when practicing outdoors.

We now always keep the outside lights on, as they had been trying to get under the rear deck to see if there was a window under there they could break in and get in through the basement without the neighbors noticing. Sneaky *******s.

I never heard them break the latticework around the deck with a piece of 3' rebar they dropped as they fled. My girlfriend wanted to save electricity and kept turning the light out on me. Not anymore!

I would not put one on any of my N Frames, but if I was older or had bad eyesight, it was a home defense weapon, and I didn't have the Beretta which has them, I probably would on one. Why not?

In the evenings I do keep one of the Magnums on the coffee table in its presentation box, loaded and a speedloader right there - no kids, just the wife and dogs - and when I turn in I put them away.

And I pity the fool that breaks in or does a home invasion and I have my .41 or .44 in hand.

I'll bet my gun is bigger.