To those of you with suppressors

[HRArms]

OK, maybe not a manufacturer. But I know 2 dealers that sold suppressors, but quit after a few years because the annual fee was not worth their time for the number they sold. The suppressors they had in stock, but unsold, they were allowed to keep and use without a tax stamp, since they were registered to the business when they had the NFA FFL (again the legal term escapes me). They were also allowed to assemble SBRs but never did. They were also exempt from another fee or registration because they sold so few NFA items.

 

[BELT_FED]

If it was less than 50 guns they were exempt from the 11% excise tax but would still owe ITAR at $2800 per year and the SOT2 tax plus the cost of their 07 FFL every 3 years..

You can build your own suppressor/SBR or SBS on a form 1 as long as local or state laws allow it. But you must file the form 1 wait for approval and then "make" your suppressor or SBR/SBS.

Transfer s are done on a form 4. This form and the form 1 look a lot alike. The biggest change is you yourself are the "maker" on a form 1.

 

[Gunslinger808]

The part about keeping your items tax free after you stop being a manufacturer...that doesn't sound quite right to me either, but I don't know the specifics.

OK, here we go, I've been reading this thread and trying not to comment.
You CAN keep items NOT prohibited by the 86 ban like suppressors, SBRs, and PRE sample firearms.
You CAN NOT keep firearms that are post samples (post April 86).

Get a FFL with the Class 3 manufacturer option.

It's actually an 07, 03s are just for sale or transfer, NOT licensed to manufacture.

this is exactly why i plan on asking the BATF about the legality of making one.

Yes you can, but really if you have the tools and know how to build a better suppressor, why not get the license.

But I know 2 dealers that sold suppressors, but quit after a few years because the annual fee was not worth their time for the number they sold.

Must have been some sorry dealers as the fee for being an 07 or 03 is only $500 per year, I sell quite a few every year.
But then again I don't charge MSRP.
It is time consuming rather than a quick buck, but I treat my customers right and they keep coming back for more.

ETA:

I am curious as to what ones you are using, but more curious about the ammo. Do you use sub sonic rounds in your 1522 suppressed? Do they cycle the action well? How quiet is the gun suppressed with standard velocity rounds?

Yes, in a firearm with a barrel length greater than 8 inches you need to use sub sonic ammo for the best effect, any barrel over 8 inches MAY be long enough for the round to go supersonic and cause a "Crack" as it exits the suppressor.
I use Remington and CCI subsonics in mine, and they cycle the bolt without a problem.
With good sub loads you'll freak as to how loud the actual bullet strike is, and on your end all you hear is the action cycle.
Here's a pic of my demo S&W with YHM Wraith:

Some of my demo units: (you have no idea how hard it was to balance that darn Walther on top of that)

 

[BELT_FED]

Don't get caught up in DB drag racing. Everyone who owns a can feels the same way as everyone who owns a sports car. They have money invested and are alittle bias. With that said on a 22 can look for something serviceable and if its going to be swapped from pistol to rifles look at the over all diameter. If your anywhere close to me I have several cans and integrally suppressed toys that I'd be happy to let you try out. (My integral 44mag sounds like a paint ball gun)

 

[BELT_FED]

Sorry, you have to be an 07 FFL in order to register a NFA item

Sorry but this isn't true. Form 1s have a purpose.

 

[fotoman12001]

I can speak with experience

I own both a SS Sparrow and Spectre II. I will make the following points:

• If I could keep only one it would be the SS Sparrow. The Sparrow is noticeably quieter on rifles. The Spectre II is a little quieter on pistols but not much. I prefer the look and the monocore construction of the Sparrow.
• Currently I use the suppressors on 3 pistols (Buck Mark w/ 4.5" Tactical Solutions barrel, Ruger MKII w/ Tactical Solutions 4.5" barrel, Ruger MKII stainless with barrel cut to 4.5") and 2 rifles (TC Contender and Buck Mark rifle both cut/threaded to 16.5"). I can use any ammo in the pistols without breaking the sound barrier and getting the sonic crack. I must use subsonic ammo in the rifles (such as CCI standard velocity 1070FPS) to avoid the sonic crack. I have found that bulk pack ammo goes supersonic in my rifles.
• I purchased via a trust and feel it was the best option at the time. However, I understand the ATF is making some changes to trust applications that may negate some of those benefits.
• The Contender is absolutely stupid quiet.
• The Buck Mark rifle is quiet and the fun factor is off the charts.
• I've never had an issue with any of my 22s functioning with CCI standard velocity and I feel it's the best for suppressor use.
• While quiet, the pistols are louder than you'd think they would be.
• Definitely get a suppressor. It is worth the wait and tax stamp. A Sparrow will cost you ~$600 after the stamp. A stainless S&W revolver costs that (likely more) and the suppressor is much more fun. I own several S&W revolvers too.

Some photos:

The following three targets were shot at 75 feet prone with a bipod using CCI standard velocity ammo in the Buck Mark rifle.

 

[Gunslinger808]

Sorry, you have to be an 07 FFL in order to register a NFA item

Sorry but this isn't true. Form 1s have a purpose.

Read it again man, you can build a firearm but not a Class 3 item, which is what I meant by NFA.

 

[BELT_FED]

Man I need to get you to take pics of some of my toys..LOL you got skills

 

[BELT_FED]

Yes you can build a suppressor or a SBR on a form 1. Machine guns are restricked to pre-1986 transferable guns that can be transfered on a form 4 and post ban guns that are only transferable between SOT2s and SOT3s for demo and testing purposes for military and police sales

 

[Gunslinger808]

fotoman12001, you take some serious nice pics.
But then again your name gives you away.
Very nice.

ETA:

Yes you can build a suppressor or a SBR on a form 1

You are right BELT FED, on suppressors, I stand corrected.
Sometimes I lead with my head rather than my brain!

 

[telero]

Read it again man, you can build a firearm but not a Class 3 item, which is what I meant by NFA.

Firearms are not class 3. Class 3 is a tax bracket. You can't build or sell class 3. Someone with a class 3 SOT (has paid the tax...) can deal in Title II firearms.


Also, Sparrow is a great suppressor. For any .22 type suppressor you definitely want the ability to open it up and clean it. 22 is just too dirty otherwise. You can run a .223 can on a .22 but they are generally sealed units and eventually you'd need to have it worked on. The other nice thing about the sparrow is that it is rated for full auto and several other calibers (.17 HMR, 5.7x28, 22 mag).

 

[Gunslinger808]

NVMD......

 

[vipermd]

Telero / Gunslinger808 / Beltfed : Are on the money, sounds like they were reading from ATF books--Great Info Only thing that I would add-> if you are an FFL, you may do the paperwork yourself and receive a suppressor(s), if you only want one for yourself. PIA!! I am SOT and now buy/sell/transer NFA items, mostly cans. If you want a suppressor- Check your state first, if legal, then go to FFL/SOT local dealer. I demo the cans for customers so they can hear what they would be receiving, it helps to remove the TV/MOVIE impressions that your 50 cal Barret will sound like a air gun, staple gun with supersonic ammo, but subsonic ammo in 9mm, 22 lr, 308 truly will make you smile. Talk to your dealer, many times their in house price of a can will be the same or less than on line, therefore you are not paying an additional 50/75/100$ for transfer and they can help you through the paperwork getting it right the first time. Advantages of a can, shoot without ears, hunting where legal, Zero your NV at NIGHT ( about 10 days ago, 3 AM on MY range "Silent Night" { 15-22 / Liberty Kodiak TL/ NV Scope /Rem subs }, Full Moon. 20 degrees). It is addicting with the noise greatly eliminated, muzzle blast gone it adds greatly for us old guys(me), I just wish I would have started 40 yrs ago. Enjoy, Be Safe,

 

[BELT_FED]

^What they said^

How can there be so much miscommunication.

There is no such thing as a class 3 weapon. People refer to NFA items as class 3 weapons when the classification refers to the FFLs tax payer status.

If your a FFL type 01 you can add a class 3 SOT to your license and transfer NFA items. If you an FFL type 07 you can add a class 2 SOT to your license and manufacture NFA items also known as Title II. If you do not add the SOT to your license your restricted to the sale(01) or manufacturing(07) of non NFA items meaning pistols, rifles, and such that are not SBRed or suppressed.

Now with that said, if you can legally own a pistol, and it doesn't violate state or local law an individual may file a form 1 to "make" a single suppressor or SBR/SBS...
The reason I used the words able to own a pistol is because the criteria is the same for most part (I.e. 21 years of age, non felon, and such)...

Not correcting any one here just trying to make things clearer.. maybe? LOL

 

[RedNeck Jim]

IMO, this conversation has gotten real muddy. All type of back on forth over stuff that matters not the least to the "normal" person wanting to buy a suppressor for their 15-22. If you want to build one or want to file the paperwork to become a dealer, whatever the heck it is, I think one of the message boards that specialize in such maters would be a better choice for such detailed conversation.

To reiterate, if you want to put a suppressor on your 15-22, all you have to do is purchase one from a class 3 dealer, submit a form 4 with $200... and wait. No big deal. Only real decision, besides which suppressor to purchase, is if you file the form as an individual or as a corporation/trust. Earlier discussion explains the differences.

 

[roadkill45]

I am going to try to get a trust completed and purchase a suppressor by the end of the year. I have been looking at the Sparrow, the Spectre II and the Surefire. I have not made up my mind yet but quietness is my biggest buying factor.

I am curious as to what ones you are using, but more curious about the ammo. Do you use sub sonic rounds in your 1522 suppressed? Do they cycle the action well? How quiet is the gun suppressed with standard velocity rounds?

The suppressor would also be used on my Ruger 22-45 Lite. From what I understand you can use standard velocity rounds in pistols because of the shorter barrel.

Since you are in AZ as i am, be prepared to wait exactly 6 months. our examiner is Ann Feltner and she is SLOW! there are only 9 examiners and have been broken down into divisions of the country. I have 2 more in line that just went pending about a month ago so i'm looking at September for the new cans (i have quite the stamp collection!)

does the Ruger already have a threaded barrel? if not, you can't just switch barrels on a MK series, you have to buy a whole upper from say Tactical Solutions and it is considered the firearm so it has to go to your FFL. IDK if the barrel can be cut and threaded on the MK series.
the Buckmark on the other hand, barrel can just be replaced.

 

[telero]

Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms | ATF.

The NFA FAQ is an interesting read, as well as the NFA handbook: Publications - Firearms - National Firearms Act Handbook | ATF

There is some good historical as well as technical information.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

does the Ruger already have a threaded barrel? if not, you can't just switch barrels on a MK series, you have to buy a whole upper from say Tactical Solutions and it is considered the firearm so it has to go to your FFL.

Ruger 22/45, 22/45 Lite and Mark III all have versions with threaded barrels.

Since you are in AZ as i am, be prepared to wait exactly 6 months. our examiner is Ann Feltner and she is SLOW! there are only 9 examiners and have been broken down into divisions of the country.

We're only paying them $200 to shuffle a couple pieces of paper. They could hire all the people they wanted for $50,000 a year to process just one transfer a day. Well... that's not fair... they do have to pay to manufacture the stamp... probably have a no bid contract for $50 per stamp.

** Seeing as how this IS the 1522 section... I think we're obligated to have some pics of suppressed 15-22.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[RedNeck Jim]

the Buckmark on the other hand, barrel can just be replaced.

Yep, & that is why I bought the Buck Mark. I got the Whisper model, that comes threaded but also purchased a Tactical Solutions threaded barrel, which because the serial number isn't on the barrel, was shipped straight to me.

Since the 22Sparrow is so narrow, it should look real nice on the Buck Mark, along with the 15-22.

Speaking of Buck Mark, I did the Heggis trigger spring flip this weekend, and boy did that ever help in reducing trigger pull!

IMO, pistol discussion here is relevant, in that if you are gonna spend all that money on a suppressor & stamp, might as well share it amongst different guns. As Phil mentioned, some suppressors are great for the 15-22 but not so great if you want to also use on a pistol.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

** Seeing as how this IS the 1522 section... I think we're obligated to have some pics of suppressed 15-22.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Beautiful! I feel like a kid again, knowing that soon Santa will be bringing something special. Only difference is I'm 50+ years older & had to pay Santa $200 in order to get my present.