Today's Find: Winchester Model 97 (TD)

[2152hq]

Model 97's in 12ga are all 2 3/4" chamber length.
They were cut that way from the start of production.

If you measure the chamber length (of a TD model) by simply using the disassembled bbl assembly, you WILL come up with the short chamber length of 2 1/2+" chamber length.
That is because the other 1/4" of the actual chamber is inside the action in the form of the 'chamber ring' that that the bolt fits up against on the inside,,and the bbl fits against when in place on the muzzle side.
That ring and it's 1/4" length is part of the chamber and it's length.

Lengthening the chamber based only on the bbl and that 2 1/2" measurement will leave you with a 3" chambered gun when all is done. The bbl will be (recut to) 2 3/4",, and then add the 1/4" chamber ring.

Winchester did not start marking chamber lengths on the guns till 1935. That's when the 3" 12ga shell was intro'd. Though the M97 was never offered in 3" 12ga, the M12 was.

What some do to 'improve' the older guns is to lengthen the forcing cone. The older forcing cones are short and abrupt. That was for a good seal w/the card & fibre wads of the day.
Recutting the F/Cone to a more gentler angle is more appropriate for the plastic wads used now and can reduce recoil a bit.
However there is only so much metal in the bbl and some careful measureing of the bbl wall must be done before doing and chamber length/forcing cone work. Eyeballing it does not count.
Most of the time all these 'improvements' are un-needed and the guns are just fine as they are.

Great looking 97's

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Thanks for the clarification 2152.

 

[Iframe32s]

My all-time favorite...IMO one of the greatest shotguns ever developed!

But for the life of me, still can't figure out how "cowboys" used 1897/97s in the 1870s & 1880s.

 

[bill-in-texas]

Your barrel looks to be 30"-32" full like the one I have...

Good eye, Mike.
Yes. The bbl. measures 32".
Edit: I'll run a rod down to the breach face later today, to verify bbl. length.
I was wondering if that was a special order length.

-Bill

 

[Borderboss]

I love my 1897. I bought it for cowboy shooting back in the mid-1990s, before the prices started to get crazy. I got lucky to get one of the last ones built, sometime in the mid-1950s. At the risk of incurring the wrath of Mike, above, I did get the barrel cut down and had a Winchester rubber recoil pad added. Sorry.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

SASS is loosely based on the wild west. There's even a B-Western category if you want to look like Roy or Dale. The guys out on the left coast that created SASS made 1899 the cut off date for the firearms [or reproductions]. And they liked using the '97. You compete against other shooters by category based on style of shooting or type of revolver, age, sex, smokeless or black powder, clothing and accoutrements, etc. If you want to reenact shoot/compete look into NCOWS. They are all about being correct in dress and firearms. Look into GAF if you want to play soldier. The most fun you can have with your clothes on. Here I am as Gabby with my Marlin, 'yer dern tootin.'

 

[Gary M]

I've wanted one of these as long as I've known about them... maybe, only 20 years or so.

SN places it at 1931; I hope I look this good if I live to see 90!
The bore is like a perfect tubular mirror and the furniture is very near pristine, showing no signs of sanding or refinishing. The takedown is snug at the collar with zero looseness.

Enjoy the pictures and, for you who have Winchester experience, please share your knowledge.

Looking at the Winchester Collectors site, the SN places the date of manufacturing as 1926. Some of the other web sources are not correct or accurate, but that site has direct contact with the museum and the actual official polishing records that date the gun.
I have a couple that will never leave while I draw breathe, a 16 gauge take down from 1931 and a solid frame 12 gauge from 1903.

You didn't mention, but is it a 12 or 16? If it is a 16 then it is chambered for 2 9/16 shells, not the current 2 3/4. There is debate about the safety of shooting the modern longer shells in the shorter chamber and I'll not weigh in on it other than to say mine is the shorter and I had it reamed to accept the longer as better safe than sorry.

If you have any questions about yours, that site is an invaluable source of information and Bert H. has done extensive research on that particular model.

 

[bill-in-texas]

Looking at the Winchester Collectors site, the SN places the date of manufacturing as 1926.

Yes, sir. Duly noted from post 10, as well.
Thank you Gary.

You didn't mention, but is it a 12 or 16?

Oops... It's a 12 Gauge.

If you have any questions about yours, that site is an invaluable source of information and Bert H. has done extensive research on that particular model.

I'll join today. I certainly have some questions. Thanks for the help!

-Bill

 

[Gary M]

No problem.

You will now be able to have a whole new appreciation for the words "slide bite".

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Good eye, Mike.
Yes. The bbl. measures 32".
Edit: I'll run a rod down to the breach face later today, to verify bbl. length.
I was wondering if that was a special order length.

-Bill

Most the mdl 12's and 97's came with longer barrels and full choke. You see way more of the longer ones that short ones. BTW Both of mine the mdl 12 and the mdl 97 have 32" full choke barrels. I have killed many deer with both. They pattern buckshot like a rifle.

 

[JH1951]

No problem.

You will now be able to have a whole new appreciation for the words "slide bite".

The Winchester '97 is my all-time favorite shotgun. I have had one or another since about 1960. I used them for dove hunting decades ago, and now have a trench model for home defense, etc.
While reading this whole thread, I was thinking about my first (and last) encounter with slide bite. You'll know it when you encounter it, somewhat like a Garand thumb. You can learn to avoid it, too without injury. Just be aware of the potential of it, work with cycling practice, and you will be just fine.
The only bite that I ever had was from a 1911 on the web of my strong hand. Just become familiar with the '97 and it will be a best friend.

 

[poprivit]

I've got a '97 that was made in 1897, so it's not considered a firearm by the Feds. It had the bbl cut a while back, and the bore is pitted, but I don't plan on shooting it. I might be in the selling market, but if I am, I'll post it in the marketplace with lots of photos and the s/n.

 

[Jessie]

Nice Winchester! It looks like it's been in somebody's sock drawer few several decades, only taken out to oil occasionally.

 

[AJ]

I've got a '97 that was made in 1897, so it's not considered a firearm by the Feds. It had the bbl cut a while back, and the bore is pitted, but I don't plan on shooting it. I might be in the selling market, but if I am, I'll post it in the marketplace with lots of photos and the s/n.

The local gun shop just sold one like that.

 

[Borderboss]

Good eye, Mike.
Yes. The bbl. measures 32".
Edit: I'll run a rod down to the breach face later today, to verify bbl. length.
I was wondering if that was a special order length.

-Bill

The standard length barrel on the 1897 was 30", at least for 12 gauge. I don't recall on 16 gauge.

You're more likely to see longer than 30" than shorter. It seems that 30" and 32" were more popular than 28" and less in '97s. Of course that's other than the trench/riot guns.

 

[Iframe32s]

The standard length barrel on the 1897 was 30", at least for 12 gauge. I don't recall on 16 gauge.

16 ga. was 28"

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

The Winchester '97 is my all-time favorite shotgun.

Only because you haven't handled a Winchester Model 12. The 12 is a big improvement over the '97. No slide bite but they are a little more difficult to load. But imo a Marlin Model 24 12 ga is a lot slicker than a '97. SASS has lawyered up and outlawed Marlin sg's though I can still use mine at my unaffiliated [with SASS] cas clubs shoots.

 

[JH1951]

The Winchester '97 is my all-time favorite shotgun.

Only because you haven't handled a Winchester Model 12. The 12 is a big improvement over the '97. No slide bite but they are a little more difficult to load. But imo a Marlin Model 24 12 ga is a lot slicker than a '97. SASS has lawyered up and outlawed Marlin sg's though I can still use mine at my unaffiliated [with SASS] cas clubs shoots.

I beg to differ. Your assumption is incorrect. I have owned (and as you say, handled) Mod. 12's and Mod 25's....
They are fine pieces, and in some respects 'better'. The Mod. of 1897 remains my favorite. You have your opinion, and I am standing by mine.
.

 

[Iframe32s]

I beg to differ. Your assumption is incorrect. I have owned (and as you say, handled) Mod. 12's and Mod 25's....
They are fine pieces, and in some respects 'better'. The Mod. of 1897 remains my favorite. You have your opinion, and I am standing by mine.
.

I once had a 20 ga. Model 1912 (which was made in 1912). It was indeed a sleek, light weight, quick-pointing (25" bbl.) aesthetically beautiful arm with an action that cycled as smooth as glass...Only problem was no good for a southpaw. Gotta have an exposed hammer or safety located behind the trigger guard (i.e. Remington).

Agreed. An 1897 or 97 suits me just fine.

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

They do in all of the movies!

My all-time favorite...IMO one of the greatest shotguns ever developed!

But for the life of me, still can't figure out how "cowboys" used 1897/97s in the 1870s & 1880s.

So it must be true!