Today's Find: Winchester Model 97 (TD)

[JH1951]

No problem.

You will now be able to have a whole new appreciation for the words "slide bite".

The Winchester '97 is my all-time favorite shotgun. I have had one or another since about 1960. I used them for dove hunting decades ago, and now have a trench model for home defense, etc.
While reading this whole thread, I was thinking about my first (and last) encounter with slide bite. You'll know it when you encounter it, somewhat like a Garand thumb. You can learn to avoid it, too without injury. Just be aware of the potential of it, work with cycling practice, and you will be just fine.
The only bite that I ever had was from a 1911 on the web of my strong hand. Just become familiar with the '97 and it will be a best friend.

 

[poprivit]

I've got a '97 that was made in 1897, so it's not considered a firearm by the Feds. It had the bbl cut a while back, and the bore is pitted, but I don't plan on shooting it. I might be in the selling market, but if I am, I'll post it in the marketplace with lots of photos and the s/n.

 

[Jessie]

Nice Winchester! It looks like it's been in somebody's sock drawer few several decades, only taken out to oil occasionally.

 

[AJ]

I've got a '97 that was made in 1897, so it's not considered a firearm by the Feds. It had the bbl cut a while back, and the bore is pitted, but I don't plan on shooting it. I might be in the selling market, but if I am, I'll post it in the marketplace with lots of photos and the s/n.

The local gun shop just sold one like that.

 

[Borderboss]

Good eye, Mike.
Yes. The bbl. measures 32".
Edit: I'll run a rod down to the breach face later today, to verify bbl. length.
I was wondering if that was a special order length.

-Bill

The standard length barrel on the 1897 was 30", at least for 12 gauge. I don't recall on 16 gauge.

You're more likely to see longer than 30" than shorter. It seems that 30" and 32" were more popular than 28" and less in '97s. Of course that's other than the trench/riot guns.

 

[Iframe32s]

The standard length barrel on the 1897 was 30", at least for 12 gauge. I don't recall on 16 gauge.

16 ga. was 28"

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

The Winchester '97 is my all-time favorite shotgun.

Only because you haven't handled a Winchester Model 12. The 12 is a big improvement over the '97. No slide bite but they are a little more difficult to load. But imo a Marlin Model 24 12 ga is a lot slicker than a '97. SASS has lawyered up and outlawed Marlin sg's though I can still use mine at my unaffiliated [with SASS] cas clubs shoots.

 

[JH1951]

The Winchester '97 is my all-time favorite shotgun.

Only because you haven't handled a Winchester Model 12. The 12 is a big improvement over the '97. No slide bite but they are a little more difficult to load. But imo a Marlin Model 24 12 ga is a lot slicker than a '97. SASS has lawyered up and outlawed Marlin sg's though I can still use mine at my unaffiliated [with SASS] cas clubs shoots.

I beg to differ. Your assumption is incorrect. I have owned (and as you say, handled) Mod. 12's and Mod 25's....
They are fine pieces, and in some respects 'better'. The Mod. of 1897 remains my favorite. You have your opinion, and I am standing by mine.
.

 

[Iframe32s]

I beg to differ. Your assumption is incorrect. I have owned (and as you say, handled) Mod. 12's and Mod 25's....
They are fine pieces, and in some respects 'better'. The Mod. of 1897 remains my favorite. You have your opinion, and I am standing by mine.
.

I once had a 20 ga. Model 1912 (which was made in 1912). It was indeed a sleek, light weight, quick-pointing (25" bbl.) aesthetically beautiful arm with an action that cycled as smooth as glass...Only problem was no good for a southpaw. Gotta have an exposed hammer or safety located behind the trigger guard (i.e. Remington).

Agreed. An 1897 or 97 suits me just fine.

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

They do in all of the movies!

My all-time favorite...IMO one of the greatest shotguns ever developed!

But for the life of me, still can't figure out how "cowboys" used 1897/97s in the 1870s & 1880s.

So it must be true!

 

[bill-in-texas]

The standard length barrel on the 1897 was 30", at least for 12 gauge. I don't recall on 16 gauge.

You're more likely to see longer than 30" than shorter. It seems that 30" and 32" were more popular than 28" and less in '97s. Of course that's other than the trench/riot guns.

UPDATE: I just ran a cleaning rod to the breech face. The barrel is in fact 32".

-Bill

 

[2152hq]

32" bbl length in 12ga was a standard offering as was the 30" of course.
They both came in Full choke unless ordered otherwise.
28" was supplied with Mod choke as standard but could again be spec ord with anything you wanted to pay for.

Winchester did offer the 1897 as the 'Brush Gun' (that's the Model name they gave it). Most all the BrushGuns are in 12ga.
But Winchester did make some in 16ga too. Not often found

Factory 26" w/a cyl choke ,,, though Mod could be spec'l ordered on a Brush Gun.
IIRC the magazine tube was slightly shorted also on the BrushGun w/a capacity of 4rds.
The butt stock has a slightly shorter LOP than the standard butt stock fitted on the Field Grade 97's.

You could 'order' yourself a Field Grade 1897 in 12ga with a 26" cylinder choke bbl as well. But it would be just that,,a Field Grade w/a 26" cyl choke bbl.
It would not be a 'Brush Gun'

The 16ga Model 1897's did have the 'short chambers' at 2 9/16" length.
That was the standard shell length of the time.

Winchester didn't start marking shot shell chamber length on any of their shotguns till the 1930's when the the 3" 12ga round made it's appearance.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Carrying Case: with a 12 or 97 that has a 18 or 20 inch barrel, you can carry them in any old satchel you want. With the tube magazine mounted on the barrel instead of the action (like an 870) they fit very nicely in a normal brief case. (just like a short barreled SxS.)

For a long barreled gun, the traditional carry case was a "Leg of Mutton" leather case. The modern padded canvas take down bag is a fine replacement, just make sure it has room in the barrel compartment, as some are for O/U's or SxS's and get too tight.

My brother hates putting shotguns together, so his travel in rifle like cases.

Ivan

 

[bill-in-texas]

Thanks, everyone for the comments and helpful advice. I'm learning something new all the time.

-Bill

Examining the 97 last night, I discovered this year mark on the front of the trigger guard:

 

[bower]

Most likely an inspectors mark.

 

[AJ]

Thanks, everyone for the comments and helpful advice. I'm learning something new all the time.

-Bill

Examining the 97 last night, I discovered this year mark on the front of the trigger guard:

Did you check the date here? Winchester Dates of Manufacture

It comes up 1931.

 

[Gary M]

Did you check the date here? Winchester Dates of Manufacture

It comes up 1931.

Please see above posts 10, 27 and 28.

If you go to the Winchester Collector site, they have a few threads about how and why sites such as the one you list have inaccurate or incomplete information.

 

[Borderboss]

Most likely an inspectors mark.

Agreed. I don't recall seeing anything about Winchester stamping years on the guns.

 

[AJ]

Agreed. I don't recall seeing anything about Winchester stamping years on the guns.

They sure do on some of their guns. Usually it is under the barrel. My Winchester 52's are all dated on the barrels.

 

[M1A]

Thanks OP. Great find.
I have my Grandfathers 16ga that he used to hunt geese and ducks as they waddled on the shore of Lake Geneva WI. Story is he'd line up two at a time. It was during the depression and it was meat on the table, not sport hunting.
Enjoy your new find. Mine is a treasure to shoot.

 

[Drm50]

I saved this one from a bubba wack job. I saved what barrel I could once muzzle was squared. I fitted a set of rifle sights to barrel radius. Took to Smith and he talked me into screw in chokes. I don't regret that but gun was in very good condition. Blue is 95% + and wood and finish were excellent. I regret stripping original finish and going with glass finish poly.

 

[Borderboss]

Finally pulled out a couple of photos of my 1897. The serial number is a little over 1,000,000 and according to Winchester Collector, it was made in 1952. It was easily a 95%+ gun when I got it for cowboy shooting.

Sorry, but I had a gunsmith shorten the 30" barrel to around 19" and install a bead. The bore is shiny and the action is tight. The bluing is pretty much intact except for the magazine tube, where it always gets a lot of wear.

The wood is in fabulous shape as well. I did install an original Winchester recoil pad. While that's not original to the gun, at least it's a Winchester product.

 

[Iframe32s]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderboss View Post
Agreed. I don't recall seeing anything about Winchester stamping years on the guns.

They sure do on some of their guns. Usually it is under the barrel. My Winchester 52's are all dated on the barrels.

There should be a two-digit date stamped towards the underside of the bbl. approx. 1 - 1 1/2" fwd. of the rcvr. A flashlight & mirror may be needed to view.

 

[2152hq]

The Barrel Date is just that, the yr the barrel itself was made.
It's usually the same yr as the gun it's installed on was mfg'd,,but not always.
Parts like bbls and others were simply placed in bins. First in was generally first out when needed on the assembly line. But not always the case.
Also lesser popular caliber bbls on rifles may lay in storage bins for some time after being made before a 'run' in that caliber was done. So the 'bbl yr' may be some months or even yrs older than the ser# production of the assembled gun it's screwed on to indicates.

Dated bbl's also had a caliber marking along with it and some insp and steel type markings. It varies over the production yrs.
All this was done with individual hand stamps.

The bbl date thing was phased out sometime in the 50's IIRC. Maybe earlier(?). Collectors will know about that stuff.

 

[bill-in-texas]

I haven't been able to find a year mark, yet.
But, it looks like it must be 1930 or later, based on the 2 3/4" marking.
-Bill

 

[Old Corp]

Mine came from a large estate being handled by the LGS I was working for at the time. It's a M97, c.1935 in the 20" cyl' 'Police Model'.
Looks like it spent most of it's life in an indoors rack - very good shape and slick, as most are.

Really fun to take on a sporting clays course, and I've taken pen-raised Quail with it while helping a friend train his dog.

And, after first getting it, found that for some strange reason, it shoots standard Foster-style slugs like a daggone rifle - with just the bead front.
Slightly less than palm-sized groups at 75 yards.

 

[bill-in-texas]

32" bbl length in 12ga was a standard offering as was the 30" of course.
They both came in Full choke unless ordered otherwise.

I guess this 32" barrel, if original, was special ordered. (?)

Winchester didn't start marking shot shell chamber length on any of their shotguns till the 1930's when the the 3" 12ga round made it's appearance.

Interesting.
Thank you.
-Bill

 

[Drm50]

I've owned a good many 1897s. When dealing in them first thing I do is check the hammer/ sear engagement. Put on half cock and put pressure on trigger. If hammer has movement you need to replace some parts.
The TD models that have been taken down a lot can get sloppy. I have owned several that were hard to get apart the first time I tried. Probably because they had never been apart. That goes for all take downs.
Finally beware of rookies who inherit grandpa's 97. They can be an accident waiting to happen. Cycling first shell with finger on the trigger has caused more than one accident. I could never see slam fire as a plus for sporting weapon.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Gotta Love 'em!

Hi folks,

Here's a 16 gauge '97 I picked up a few years ago. The front sight bead had been replaced, but other than that I believe it to be original. I'll probably go ahead and put a more appropriate brass bead up front sometime in the future.

When I first saw the move "Bullitt" with Steve McQueen, I was totally focused on the shotgun the bad guys used against him, in that famous car chase scene. I had to have one.

Best wishes everyone!

Roger AKA Mr. Wonderful