Transitioning From Concealed Carry Without Brandishing

[MX-5]

I live in Virginia. My understanding of the law is that you can "open carry" a handgun into a restaurant that serves liquor without a concealed carry permit. However, you cannot concealed carry a handgun into a restaurant that serves liquor even with a concealed carry permit. The problem with "open carry" is that it may intimidate other patrons and, if you run into the wrong police officer, they may not agree with your position that a small revolver in a waste holster is open rather than concealed. So I figured that I would unload the handgun and stow in the trunk of my car.

Virginia has a law that probably is fairly common regarding "brandishing." As I understand it, that means that you cannot openly display a handgun in a manner that creates some sort of fear or apprehension to the public.

I have a concealed carry permit. Yesterday, I'm about to have lunch with a friend, and I notice that the restaurant serves liquor. Since I'm carrying a concealed handgun, I cannot legally enter unless I either "open carry" or stow the handgun, unloaded, in the trunk of my car. Since I ruled out "open carry," I decide to go to stow the gun, unloaded, in the trunk of my car. So there I am, in a crowded outdoor parking lot in a shopping mall, stooping over the trunk of my car, unloading the handgun, hoping that some snooping passer-by doesn't accuse me of brandishing.

How do I "lawfully," remove the loaded handgun from my holster, in an outdoor parking lot, unload same, and place in the trunk of my car while minimizing the risk of "brandishing"? Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

 

[MX-5]

I live in Virginia. My understanding of the law is that you can "open carry" a handgun into a restaurant that serves liquor without a concealed carry permit. However, you cannot concealed carry a handgun into a restaurant that serves liquor even with a concealed carry permit. The problem with "open carry" is that it may intimidate other patrons and, if you run into the wrong police officer, they may not agree with your position that a small revolver in a waste holster is open rather than concealed. So I figured that I would unload the handgun and stow in the trunk of my car.

Virginia has a law that probably is fairly common regarding "brandishing." As I understand it, that means that you cannot openly display a handgun in a manner that creates some sort of fear or apprehension to the public.

I have a concealed carry permit. Yesterday, I'm about to have lunch with a friend, and I notice that the restaurant serves liquor. Since I'm carrying a concealed handgun, I cannot legally enter unless I either "open carry" or stow the handgun, unloaded, in the trunk of my car. Since I ruled out "open carry," I decide to go to stow the gun, unloaded, in the trunk of my car. So there I am, in a crowded outdoor parking lot in a shopping mall, stooping over the trunk of my car, unloading the handgun, hoping that some snooping passer-by doesn't accuse me of brandishing.

How do I "lawfully," remove the loaded handgun from my holster, in an outdoor parking lot, unload same, and place in the trunk of my car while minimizing the risk of "brandishing"? Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

You are overthinking this. Just take it off while inside the car, stuff it somewhere, and go in and do your business.

Or CC anyway.

 

[PocketProtector642]

Originally posted by MX-5:
Virginia has a law that probably is fairly common regarding "brandishing." As I understand it, that means that you cannot openly display a handgun in a manner that creates some sort of fear or apprehension to the public.

How do I "lawfully," remove the loaded handgun from my holster, in an outdoor parking lot, unload same, and place in the trunk of my car while minimizing the risk of "brandishing"? Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

I think you answered your own question. Is putting it in your trunk personally threatening to anybody? no. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[BamaBear]

I wouldn't want anyone seeing me put my gun in my trunk and then walk away.

I would take my gun and holster off my belt while still inside my car. I would them put it in a bag or box or something that would hide the fact that it is a gun. Then I would get out of the car and put it in the trunk.

Or, better yet, just slip it under the front seat so I can put it back on when I return to my car.

 

[jeffsmith]

These work well

Center of Mass Safe

Cabelas also has a similar model

 

[GatorFarmer]

You could of course do what many others in VA do and ignore that part of the law of course. Or learn to enjoy Cracker Barrel, Bob Evans, and Waffle House, none of which serve alcohol.

Assuming that you don't want to do that, keep a newspaper in your car. Take the gun out in the car, wrap it in the paper, put the paper in the trunk. I always like to use the Wall Street Journal. Bubble envelopes also work well.

I wouldn't mess around with unloading it either personally. If you're really worried about an AD, just pop the cylinder open and leave it broken open.

 

[Spotteddog]

What Gator said...

 

[BarbC]

"Brandishing" has menacing and aggressive connotations. The sight of a gun is not illegal in Virginia.

 

[Big Foot]

Or CC anyway.

That's a great answer....

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally posted by Big Foot:

Or CC anyway.

That's a great answer....

In fact, it is. Anybody who has carried a gun daily for very many years has probably figured out that there is very little danger in carrying a gun concealed in a holster, even in places where it is illegal. However, the danger of handling it, particularly unloading and loading it, especially in circumstances where you may be trying to conceal what you are doing from passersby, is not so small. Covert handling leads to errors. Will you be pointing it in a safe direction? If you unload it, will you point it skyward? What if you start to drop it? What if you hit your head on the trunk lid as you start to stand up?

By far the safest thing to do is to LEAVE IT ALONE. Either stop going to places that serve booze, or MOVE TO MASSACHUSETTS

, where a permit-holder LEGALLY just puts the thing on in the morning and takes it off at night.

That comment about MA, of course, was not really a recommendation, but I thought I'd point out that things are not quite as bad here as is sometimes represented.

 

[Big Foot]

In fact, it is. Anybody who has carried a gun daily for very many years has probably figured out that there is very little danger in carrying a gun concealed in a holster, even in places where it is illegal. However, the danger of handling it, particularly unloading and loading it, especially in circumstances where you may be trying to conceal what you are doing from passersby, is not so small. Covert handling leads to errors. Will you be pointing it in a safe direction? If you unload it, will you point it skyward? What if you start to drop it? What if you hit your head on the trunk lid as you start to stand up?

Using your point, what separates us from the "scum-bags", a.k.a.BG's who carry illegally?
This puts us even in an eruption that might come up in a bar, but where is the responsibility? I'm surprised at this attitude, giving anti-gun aficionados more ammunition. Like it was said, go back to the vehicle; no big-deal...

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Big Foot:
Using your point, what separates us from the "scum-bags", a.k.a.BG's who carry illegally?

We carry to protect ourselves and our own, not prey on the innocent. That's a very big difference IMO.

 

[f150guy]

Chances are the BG's didn't go through the background checks, FBI checks, finger printing, photographing, character references, ATF forms, etc, that we did to get a permit in the first place. World of difference between the 2!!

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally posted by Big Foot:
Like it was said, go back to the vehicle; no big-deal... :cool

Go back and drive away? Fine.

Go back and unload publicly and leave the gun in the trunk, showing everyone which car to break into? Not so smart. Used to be illegal in MA, now it isn't, but it isn't any smarter than it ever was. Anywhere.

Go back and unload so no one can see what you have or what you are doing? Please describe how this is done, and how the pistol is pointed in a safe direction during this entire evolution. So far, I don't think you have this one figured out, but I'm certainly willing to hear your answer.

 

[FirebirdV8]

Stick your gun in the glove box, loaded, and lock the glove box.

 

[fiasconva]

I can't see any officer in VA even arresting you for brandishing if you are putting your gun away in the trunk of your car. Can you imagine the ass-chewing he'd get from a judge when that one came to court?

 

[MX-5]

Hi, Folks. Thanks, as usual, for all the great comments. The suggestions included: that I was overthinking the issue; that I should stow the gun in a locked glovebox; that I should stow the gun in a purpose built safe; that I should wrap the gun in a newspaper (preferably The Wall Street Journal), then stow in the trunk; that I should just stow the loaded handgun in the trunk; that I should stow the unloaded handgun in the trunk; that I should pick a different restaurant; that I should open carry in the restaurant; and that I should concealed carry in the restaurant.

OK, maybe I am overthinking things. But since I've already asked the question and got some interesting comments, I might as well reply to some: I thought of picking a different restaurant, but it was late in the afternoon, we already were there, and that's where my friend wanted to go. I may have had a newspaper, but just my luck, it wasn't The Wall Street Journal, so I couldn't wrap it. I know that some folks concealed carry in private shops that say "no handguns allowed;" but I think that that's regarded as "tresspassing," a relatively minor offense. I think that concealed carry in a restaurant that serves liquor is a bit more serious. The glove box and gun safe are interesting options; but the problem with that is that I'd be sitting in my convertible, with the top down, in a crowded parking lot, handling a firearm; that may be no better than leaning over the trunk of the car. And what the heck do I do when I ride my motorcycle? I discussed with a Virginia police officer, and he said that the chances were 50/50 that an officer would say that a motorcycle saddlebag is not "secure" enough to be in compliance with the law. But that's a whole 'nother discussion.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by FirebirdV8:
Stick your gun in the glove box, loaded, and lock the glove box.

+1.

It's what I do here, since Ohio prohibits carry of any kind into an establishment which serves liquor by the drink for on premise consumption.

If it's convenient, if I know I'm going some place where I can't carry (liquor license or posted), I unholster and put my firearm in the glove box while I'm still at my point of origin. That way, anybody who sees my firearm will be some place else when I reach my destination and exit my vehicle. There's no problem AT ALL legally putting my gun in the glove box, regardless of who sees it. Ohio is an open carry state. I never HAVE to conceal it in the first place, and in fact, until recently you HAD to open carry while in a vehicle.

I just wish they'd remove the Class D liquor license prohibition. Other than fast food restaurants, pretty much everywhere I go to eat out has a liquor license. I never drink while carrying a firearm, and it gets annoying having to disarm just so I can eat dinner.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by Big Foot:

Or CC anyway.

That's a great answer....

Ohio laws are such that if you are going to carry effectively, you are going to break a few of them.

If you were to follow our law 100%, then you may as well just carry while you drive. Because in many areas of the state, particularly all the large urban ones, that is the only place not posted.

You can roll you [*edited*] eyes all you want, but that's just the way it is. {Please, ok? Thanks. ~ Barb}

Big boy rules apply.