Trigger Question

[Rambo101]

I have been doing a lot of research on the 15-22 and have found that a lot of people complain about how "notchy" the trigger is and that you should change it if you can. I am in the process of trying to get one to use to teach my 11 year old son how to shoot a rifle so we can go hunting together. Should I up grade the trigger with a RRA 2 stage trigger? Is there something better? Or should I just leave it alone?

 

[dbuffington]

I have been doing a lot of research on the 15-22 and have found that a lot of people complain about how "notchy" the trigger is and that you should change it if you can. I am in the process of trying to get one to use to teach my 11 year old son how to shoot a rifle so we can go hunting together. Should I up grade the trigger with a RRA 2 stage trigger? Is there something better? Or should I just leave it alone?

If you haven't actually fired the gun yet, try it before you go spending any money. Mine actually had a very nice, but heavy, pull right out of the box. Eventually, I replaced the springs with JP Enterprises "yellow" springs -- which cost a whopping $15 -- and that reduced the pull weight without introducing any problems.

Enjoy!
Dave

 

[dbuffington]

Oh, and kudos for teaching your kid to shoot

 

[Aceman58]

For one thing, I would teach my child how to shoot with a Combat trigger system in place. Logic, children don't need a lighten trigger pull due to safety issues. After they have learned and you feel confident they are safety minded, upgrade to a 3 or 3.5lbs trigger for those bullseye shooting events or hunting trips. From what I see, children always have their fingers in the trigger of EVERY type of weapon when it touches their hands.. lighten it up is like giving a kid a match holding a fuse..

 

[Rambo101]

If you haven't actually fired the gun yet, try it before you go spending any money. Mine actually had a very nice, but heavy, pull right out of the box. Eventually, I replaced the springs with JP Enterprises "yellow" springs -- which cost a whopping $15 -- and that reduced the pull weight without introducing any problems.

Enjoy!
Dave

This is kinda what I was thinking at first, but then after reading so many complaints I started to think that they were all "heavy" as you put it and wanted to make it easier for my son. Maybe I should just go ahead and let him try it first like you suggest.
Never heard of the JP Enterprises "yellow" springs but I will google them and see what info I can find.
Thank you

 

[wolverine]

Evening Rambo101

As some have mentioned the trigger pull can be notchy & long on the stock 15-22.

You can do a lot with the stock trigger as far as smoothing it out & removing the grittiness if you want to spend some time re-working it.

Here is my personal take on adding a 2 stage trigger as I have 2 AR's using a good quality 2 stage triggers.

For precision slow fire bench shooting the 2 stage trigger is about perfect.
For off-hand plinking, standing shooting, or combat type practice in my estimation a (smooth) single stage is better.

I have re-worked the stock single stage trigger on my 15-22 & actually like it's characteristics better for off-hand & unsupported shooting. So much so that I am planning on converting one of my AR's back to the stock trigger but re-working it to be smooth as my current 15-22.

No doubt for precision bench shooting the 2 stage is a better deal but the 2 stage is also more difficult (for me anyhow) to get a fast clean pull through for moving targets or quick silhouette shooting.

 

[Rambo101]

Evening Rambo101

As some have mentioned the trigger pull can be notchy & long on the stock 15-22.

You can do a lot with the stock trigger as far as smoothing it out & removing the grittiness if you want to spend some time re-working it.

Here is my personal take on adding a 2 stage trigger as I have 2 AR's using a good quality 2 stage triggers.

For precision slow fire bench shooting the 2 stage trigger is about perfect.
For off-hand plinking, standing shooting, or combat type practice in my estimation a (smooth) single stage is better.

I have re-worked the stock single stage trigger on my 15-22 & actually like it's characteristics better for off-hand & unsupported shooting. So much so that I am planning on converting one of my AR's back to the stock trigger but re-working it to be smooth as my current 15-22.

No doubt for precision bench shooting the 2 stage is a better deal but the 2 stage is also more difficult (for me anyhow) to get a fast clean pull through for moving targets or quick silhouette shooting.

If you don't mind sharing, what are some things that can be done to make the trigger more smooth?

 

[Rambo101]

For one thing, I would teach my child how to shoot with a Combat trigger system in place. Logic, children don't need a lighten trigger pull due to safety issues. After they have learned and you feel confident they are safety minded, upgrade to a 3 or 3.5lbs trigger for those bullseye shooting events or hunting trips. From what I see, children always have their fingers in the trigger of EVERY type of weapon when it touches their hands.. lighten it up is like giving a kid a match holding a fuse..

Good point

 

[chuck s]

Google "15 Minute AR15 Trigger Job" and/or JP Yellow Springs. These quick modifications involve polishing the sear surfaces (tip of the trigger and notch on the hammer) and lighter spring weights. Beware: a couple of folks have reported failures to fire with the lighter hammer spring.

I strongly recommend NOT dicking with the sear surfaces beyond polishing. Do NOT remove any material. The sear angles are critical and unless you have a jig and more skills than 98% of us you can bugger the rifle easily. The lighter springs will usually do the trick and the JP set is about $15 including first class mail. The 15-minute modification is free.

I've done both the "15 Minute" and JP Spring modifications to my M&P15-22. The JP springs are still in the rifle but only because they were put in last.

The trigger with JP springs weighs 5 pounds 9 ounces. I detected no difference in the trigger weights between the two and both are very much nicer than the stock AR15 trigger with only a hint of creep.

I have lighter, dead smooth triggers on my 5.56mm rifles that average a pound lighter, but all use specialty triggers. The Rock River and ArmaLite 2-stage triggers are very nice but are about $120 compared to $15 for the JP springs or $0 for the "15 Minute" setup.

-- Chuck

 

[wolverine]

If you don't mind sharing, what are some things that can be done to make the trigger more smooth?

Morning Rambo101

I hate to give specific trigger altering advice to others as I am not a certified gun smith. I have worked on guns & gun triggers for the better part of 40 years but only on my own guns.

Without being too specific-- on my personal 15-22 I stoned the trigger sear top & forward edge to a smooth ripple free surface then used a Dremel to highly polish the contact surface.

On the hammer I lightly stoned the sear engagement notch & squared the outer edge to be straight & square. Then polished the engagement surface to a mirror shine.

I then made a slightly larger hammer pin (.1555") as the original (miked at .1535") allowed some slight hammer twisting & pin movement in the receiver.

Then I assembled & used a rubber hammer stop to prevent the hammer from harshly contacting the receiver then dry fired the hammer about 1000 times.

Then disassembled the trigger & hammer & re-polished the areas that showed scuffing from the dry firing.

This left me with a very smooth but long trigger pull so next I slightly re-bent the trigger spring & slightly re-bent the hammer spring (still well above the JP Enterprises yellow spring set though).

This yielded a very smooth 4.5 lb trigger with a clean crisp let off (but still quite long on the travel)

So next I added a set screw to limit trigger sear engagement (this is MY PERSONAL choice so I won't elaborate on what I did as this only brings on controversy). I will only say the trigger did, always has, & does now (always) pass the trigger group safety tests.

 

[1fly2ty]

Some of the posters here have given you some excellent recommendations, like utilizing the yellow springs by JP and smoothing up some of the surfaces. That is a great place to start, the fact that your young son is going to shoot a firearm with a trigger that has been reduced in weight, is NOT a safety issue whatsoever! I will provide an example, My hunting partner had a Rem 700, and I mounted a new scope and we took it to the range to sight it in after seeing him miss the target at 100 yards I asked what problems he was having and he said the trigger was really hard! So I shot it it and the trigger weight was about 8 lb, so I took it back to my shop and adjusted the trigger to a nice clean and crisp 4 lbs we go back to the range and now he starts shooting groups of about 1.5 inches, so you see a trigger can be safe at lower weight, 2 weeks after I did the trigger job his son shot a nice doe with it! His son probably wouldn't have even come close to hitting that deer had the trigger not been worked on. Combat triggers are just that they were designed for combat and many of the firearms produced today are shipped with terrible triggers, and the reason behind thats is they don't want to encourage a lawsuit because a trigger was set too low! If my statements were not true then why did savage come out with the accu-trigger? Just remember there are guys that post on here that are from states that discourage free thinking when it comes to modifying a firearm in any manner, because they are so called experts! If everyone subscribed to their theories, there would be no reason to discuss modifying any firearm!

 

[Juvicator]

Got 3 kiddos that have no problem shooting my 15-22. My girl the youngest is 12 and super tiny. She runs me out of ammo when I take her shooting. I agree with above statements. Try it first.

 

[TATorg]

If you haven't actually fired the gun yet, try it before you go spending any money. Mine actually had a very nice, but heavy, pull right out of the box. Eventually, I replaced the springs with JP Enterprises "yellow" springs -- which cost a whopping $15 -- and that reduced the pull weight without introducing any problems.

Enjoy!
Dave

Dido! Teach the young man to shoot with the stock or with a JP Yellow spring. My six year old grandson, has been shoot his Little Cricket...for three years and my MOE with a JP spring up grade. Save the $$ for a two stage and spend it on ammunition.

Get him to shoot with a the iron sights too. After his accuracy is repeated again and again... then surprise him with some glass.

A great carrot for the little men and women (my grandkids). 10 shots with iron/open sights in a 4" ring at 23 yards ... then they get to shoot the MOE with a PA M4 red dot! Now the six year old wants red dots on his little cricket and his Henry!
.22 rifles.

Aim small,

TAT

 

[Rambo101]

Thank you one and all for all the great advice. I am definitively going to look into the JP Yellow springs.

 

[dbuffington]

Thank you one and all for all the great advice. I am definitively going to look into the JP Yellow springs.

You can get the JP "yellow" springs here...

Trigger Spring Kit AR-15 3-1/2 lb Reduced Power

The instructions included with the set are for a "true" AR, and the 15-22 installation is similar, but not identical. (For example, the 15-22 installation does not use the small coil spring included in the JP set.)

I highly recommend you watch some of the YouTube videos posted by MidwayUSA on AR trigger work.

Enjoy!
Dave

 

[Gopher Slayer]

You can get the JP "yellow" springs here...

Trigger Spring Kit AR-15 3-1/2 lb Reduced Power

The instructions included with the set are for a "true" AR, and the 15-22 installation is similar, but not identical. (For example, the 15-22 installation does not use the small coil spring included in the JP set.)

I highly recommend you watch some of the YouTube videos posted by MidwayUSA on AR trigger work.

Enjoy!
Dave

Weird. I didn't get any instructions and I ordered from JP Enterprises directly. I used all three springs. Even the little coil spring for the disconnector. Still 0 malfunctions with the set.

 

[pershing]

Was just about to say I used all 3 as well. Although I got to say the spring feels harder than the stock for the little one. Has anyone compared the pull with all 3 yellow vs 2 yellow?

- P

 

[dbuffington]

I used all three springs. Even the little coil spring for the disconnector. Still 0 malfunctions with the set.

Heck, maybe I messed up. It happens once in a rare while

But the difference might be that I have the PC 15-22 which supposedly has a different trigger than the regular 15-22.

 

[ragingyeti]

Heck, maybe I messed up. It happens once in a rare while

But the difference might be that I have the PC 15-22 which supposedly has a different trigger than the regular 15-22.

The PC comes with a Rock River 2-stage National Match trigger rather than the standard mil-spec trigger that the regular model comes with.

 

[chuck s]

This trigger runs about $120 and will drop into the M&P15-22. I ran one for a couple of weekends before putting it back in my AR15.

-- Chuck