Trigger thoughts

[wharvey]

While I agree having a nice trigger is wonderful the stock trigger isn't completely horrid. The trigger on my sport is about like the ones on my lever actions. Not great but useable. Shot my first Appleseed last month with mine. Made rifleman so you can be accurate using the stock trigger.

Don't get caught in the better equipment means better shooting game that's so easy to fall into. The money might be better spend in training and practice.

 

[uncledoggle]

If the AR Community ever stops "Upgrading" their rifles there will be a lot of unemployed people and business going under. Why, the whole U.S. economy might fail.

 

[schgsd]

This thread is great reading. And yes, all of it helps!

The sock drawer at one point held enough to deal with the gunbroker auction and have a scope waiting when it arrived. It's all about patience and as Phil is saying it's not always about the cost but getting what you know you want. Sometimes you gotta wait for it.

Since it has come up, the initial purpose of the rifle is pest control. My wife and I live in a very rural part of Maine and have livestock. It's obviously in the mix for SHTF and SD and I have a nice mix of handguns, a shotgun, and 2 rifles that I feel will cover me well.

I practice on used milk jugs filled with water out to 100 yards because that's pretty much what my open field of fire is, and if I can hit those I'm gonna hit the pests if I get a clear shot. I'll throw up some paper targets too when I do this because I want to know I can put that round where the crosshairs are.

This is where I start to see the inherent problems of the stock trigger. I'll settle down and try to get serious and I just pull on that trigger for what seems like forever before it finally goes off. It's not gritty per se but really takes some effort to get it to break and I see where doing so is making me jerk the gun.

Interesting to read what WR Moore said about military weapons having robust triggers on purpose due to their rough handling and use. My M&P15 was listed as a former LE weapon that spent most of it's time in the rack. Maybe it has a hard trigger by design?

 

[Rastoff]

Maybe it has a hard trigger by design?

Yes indeed, the trigger is by design. The standard military spec trigger will have about 1/16" of creep. In terms of triggers this is abysmal. However, due to the nature of how the gun is used, it's necessary to ensure the sear stays engaged as the gun is tossed about, dragged through the dirt and used to butt stroke the bad guy.

Without a lot of effort, it can be upgraded to a very nice trigger. However, some of the durability is lost when this is done. That doesn't mean you can't have a good trigger and have a durable one. It's just that there are compromises in everything. If you want a hair trigger, it's probably not going to be the best battle rifle. If you want an extremely robust trigger, it's probably not suited to bench rest competition shooting.

 

[schgsd]

Yes indeed, the trigger is by design. The standard military spec trigger will have about 1/16" of creep. In terms of triggers this is abysmal. However, due to the nature of how the gun is used, it's necessary to ensure the sear stays engaged as the gun is tossed about, dragged through the dirt and used to butt stroke the bad guy.

Without a lot of effort, it can be upgraded to a very nice trigger. However, some of the durability is lost when this is done. That doesn't mean you can't have a good trigger and have a durable one. It's just that there are compromises in everything. If you want a hair trigger, it's probably not going to be the best battle rifle. If you want an extremely robust trigger, it's probably not suited to bench rest competition shooting.

Agree, am having a devil of a time finding a tube of Flitz. The older generation at the hardware store knows what it is but no one has seen it for years.

Don't want a hair trigger, but don't want to have to use a come along to get her to go bang.

What prompted my "hard trigger" comment is this is a former LE weapon. Described as having rode around in the rack most of it's life. I'm wondering if it was shipped with a trigger spring from HE Dubl L. Because of the potential as you point out, to be dragged through the dirt and butt stroke the bad guy.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Yes, keep in mind your rifle will fire with the safety engaged. By design, sear engagement (that long creep you hate) is used to prevent firing during rough handling. Other designs don't rely on that and are very safe. For example, Wilson Combat uses a 1911 style half-cock notch. The hammer simply won't engage the firing pin unless the trigger is pressed. Can't get much safer than that for rough handling.

Finger on trigger-- firing before the operator intends. Cold weather fingers or wearing gloves is an issue to consider. The operator simply looses feel for the trigger as weight is reduced. If I lived up north I'd probably get the 5-6lb Wilson. Living in the South I'm comfortable with 4lb. Another issue is high stress, and some will preach heavier triggers.

 

[samnev]

I have put Geissele SSA-E triggers in all of my ARs and it is the best money you can spend! I just bought my 3rd one from Primary Arms with a 15% off coupon, so about $200 OTD. Best investment you can make. And 3.5 pounds is not that light.

+1 I also have the SSA-E in all my 556/223 and 308 AR's and love that trigger. Specifically it turned my 15T from a 1.25" 5 shot 100 yard group shooter into a consistent 0.75 moa shooter sometimes much better

 

[uncledoggle]

On another thread I asked if anyone here had experience with Hipertouch triggers. Well, there wasn't much response so I went ahead and purchased the Hipertouch 24C trigger. There are a whole lot of Youtube reviews on this trigger by people that know a lot more about AR's than I ever will, so I will not boar you with another one. Suffice it to say these guys got it right in their reviews. And So did the guys at Hiperfire. If you are looking for a trigger upgrade, you really need to take a look at the Hipertouch line.

And no, I do not work for Hiperfire. Just a very impressed customer.

 

[samnev]

Midway is having a sale on all of their Geissele triggers as of this morning.

 

[Rastoff]

Agree, am having a devil of a time finding a tube of Flitz. The older generation at the hardware store knows what it is but no one has seen it for years.

You can get some here: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Flitz-Polish-Paste-1-76-Tube/dp/B000T9LZDI"]Amazon.com: Flitz Polish - Paste - 1.76 oz. Tube: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41h3mLUmF7L.@@AMEPARAM@@41h3mLUmF7L[/ame]

However, Flitz is not necessary. Any polish will do to remove the gritty feel of the MIL-SPEC trigger. I used Mother's polish on my trigger.

I should caveat this with, do at your own risk. Any trigger modifications should only be done by those with training and experience. It is wiser to pay the extra to get a well made trigger than to do it yourself if you're not super familiar with the trigger system.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Midway is having a sale on all of their Geissele triggers as of this morning.

Primary Arms has 20% off all Geissele triggers for the weekend

 

[wurger]

Cost/performance ratio on the GS2 trigger is pretty darn good.

 

[schgsd]

However, Flitz is not necessary. Any polish will do to remove the gritty feel of the MIL-SPEC trigger. I used Mother's polish on my trigger.

I should caveat this with, do at your own risk. Any trigger modifications should only be done by those with training and experience. It is wiser to pay the extra to get a well made trigger than to do it yourself if you're not super familiar with the trigger system.

Well, Karma struck pretty hard this past week. The sock drawer is reeling from the experience but I am really happy with the way things worked out. Rastoff's caveat is echoed many times over in places I looked to better understand the process of polishing a trigger. I blinked this time and sent in payment for a 4.5 lb Velocity trigger. I installed it a couple days ago and couldn't be more pleased with the process. We are talking if you have never done a blasted thing to your AR but shoot it and clean it you can do this. I did.

The Phil from Chattanooga is speaking the truth. Everyone has a favorite brand or model but the end result sure seems that upgrading the trigger on your stock AR has got to be one of the most effective ways to improve your ability to shoot an AR15. Doing this has completely changed things for me.

There's more, and that's the Karma part and when I write that one I will link it.

 

[Kadonny]

I'm all for better triggers, but I actually find my Sport trigger to be pretty damn good.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Everyone has a favorite brand or model but the end result sure seems that upgrading the trigger on your stock AR has got to be one of the most effective ways to improve your ability to shoot an AR15. Doing this has completely changed things for me.

Glad to hear you found the right trigger.

Generally speaking, an AR is an AR is an AR. That's why they're called ARs . But a trigger makes the rifle.

I've heard good things about the Velocity. Here's a good write-up.

Gear Review: Velocity Triggers Drop-In AR-15 Trigger - The Truth About Guns

 

[saltair]

I agree with Chat'Phil on the 5-6 lb. pull trigger with cold gloved hands but the 4 lb. fits me well even with light gloves. Best up grades I made on my AR were the Wilson Combat TTU trigger, the Primary Arms Red Dot, Heavy Spikes T2 buffer. The others were just for convenience like the Mission First Tactical grip with small storage area for batteries & allen wrenches and the Magpul Pro flip up rear sight.

 

[bubbagnoosh]

Mr. Kadonny, l second you opinion. I found the stock trigger quite good. Although l haven't tried a specialized trigger, l really like the stock sport.

Mr. C. Phil, does it really make that much of a difference? Crisper break, less creep/staging?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Mr. C. Phil, does it really make that much of a difference?

Getting the right trigger for your shooting and preference can make a great deal of difference in my opinion.

For me.... most all my shooting is offhand. I want to bring the rifle up, acquire the target with the red dot and hit the target as quickly and as close to one fluid motion as possible. When I practice, it's with the idea that those steel targets at 50, 100 or 200yds are bad guys. I want to put lead on the targets quickly. The stock trigger slows everything down with a prolonged heavy long squeeze compared to the trigger I have that is a short light press which allows me far more control, speed and accuracy.

None of this is to say that great shooters can't shoot great with a stock trigger. Just as a lot of guys can run faster in boots than I can in tennis shoes. Still, I'll wear the tennis shoes...

 

[bubbagnoosh]

Thank you Sir, l am going to give one a go. All in this thread that have upgraded have been positive on the expense. I just am shy of a hair trigger. 4 lbs. Should be sufficient. I have to see the difference!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

All in this thread that have upgraded have been positive on the expense. I just am shy of a hair trigger. 4 lbs. Should be sufficient. I have to see the difference!

I hear ya. It's difficult to drop a lot of money on a trigger with so many choices unless you've tried a few and get a feel for the differences. I didn't choose a Geissele, but I think the vid in post 33 is quite good to get someone thinking about what's available for different types of shooting.