ozarkridgerunner
Member
I picked up some Hornady Critical Defence in 110gr. for my wife's 638.Shoots good groups but was wondering if anyone had tested it further.
Trying new ammo in mdl.638
- Thread starter ozarkridgerunner
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ozarkridgerunner
Member
I picked up some Hornady Critical Defence in 110gr. for my wife's 638.Shoots good groups but was wondering if anyone had tested it further.
bassoneer
Member
I tested for accuracy first, and it was very accurate. Then, I shot one round into a row of water jugs (through the same gun you have - S&W 638 shrouded hammer snubbie in aluminum airweight) and it went into the third jug and expanded perfectly. See the following photos. Good luck. B
110 grain Critical Defense .38 +P
photo 2 of critical defense .38 +P
110 grain Critical Defense .38 +P
photo 2 of critical defense .38 +P
photoman
Member
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ozarkridgerunner
Member
Looks like it will do the job.Thanks for all the info.
BreakerDan
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Just my opinion, but this ammunition is probably some of the worst 38 ammo on the market. Most Hornady ammo is highly engineered garbage. I have personally tested the 125gr 38 Hornady load and even from a 4" barrel they fail to expand. Hornady has long missed the boat for duty ammo and they keep on missing it. Their ammo is designed for CCW individuals in IDEAL frontal shots. This does not always happen and your ammo should be versatile.
Many confrontations will not be ideal and I would hate to have one that didn't meet the limited criteria these bullets were designed for. Stay away from personal defense ammo and go for duty/law enforcement ammo.
The 38 Special loaded with a 110 gr bullet is horribly lacking in penetration. I have personally seen 110 gr 38 JHP ammo bounce off a dog's skull twice in a roadside euthanasia. It would get you killed on the street. The Border Patrol tried 110gr 38+P+! back when they carried revolvers and on some occasions the bullets bounced off things or only penetrated a few inches into an assailant.
Bassoneer's water jug test proves it. If a slug only penetrates into the 3rd jug then that means about 8" penetration in an assailant at best. The FBI says 12" is minimum.
The two best loads for the 38 snub, which were both designed for law enforcement are:
Remington 38+p 158 gr lead hollowpoint "FBI Load"
Speer 38+p 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel load.
Many confrontations will not be ideal and I would hate to have one that didn't meet the limited criteria these bullets were designed for. Stay away from personal defense ammo and go for duty/law enforcement ammo.
The 38 Special loaded with a 110 gr bullet is horribly lacking in penetration. I have personally seen 110 gr 38 JHP ammo bounce off a dog's skull twice in a roadside euthanasia. It would get you killed on the street. The Border Patrol tried 110gr 38+P+! back when they carried revolvers and on some occasions the bullets bounced off things or only penetrated a few inches into an assailant.
Bassoneer's water jug test proves it. If a slug only penetrates into the 3rd jug then that means about 8" penetration in an assailant at best. The FBI says 12" is minimum.
The two best loads for the 38 snub, which were both designed for law enforcement are:
Remington 38+p 158 gr lead hollowpoint "FBI Load"
Speer 38+p 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel load.
flop-shank
US Veteran
110 gr. bullets in .38 +P will work. Penetration is as much a function of bullet design as it is weight.
Many bullets, in many calibers and some of them quite heavy, have bounced off skulls, human and otherwise. The angle the bullet hits is probably the most important factor provided the bullet is of reasonable weight and velocity. A friend of mine had a rifle bullet bounce off his skull.
I agree that Hornady defensive/duty ammo is hit and mostly miss. Their loads with XTP bullets are, BTW, deep penetrators.
Many bullets, in many calibers and some of them quite heavy, have bounced off skulls, human and otherwise. The angle the bullet hits is probably the most important factor provided the bullet is of reasonable weight and velocity. A friend of mine had a rifle bullet bounce off his skull.
I agree that Hornady defensive/duty ammo is hit and mostly miss. Their loads with XTP bullets are, BTW, deep penetrators.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
According to Hornady their Critical Defense ammo wasn't designed to pass all the FBI tests because most people don't need to shoot through cars and other FBI stuff. This ammo has a very high velocity and it's also using their new FTX bullet which expands much more reliable than their XTP bullet.
All that said, I personally carry the "FBI Load" in my J frame.
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photoman
Member
Certainly can't compare the new bullet with the old XTP. While the old XTP is a VERY accurate bullet, it's design is for hunting and not self defense. Very little expansion, if any, at lower velocities.
I think the new bullet will perform well from what I've seen.
Regarding light bullets and penetration, there is plenty of hard evidence out there to prove the above post wrong. The 110gr CorBon DPX is an excellent penetrator and exhibits expansion even after penetrating hard barriers like car doors. The Barnes X bullet is one of the best out there.
I think the new bullet will perform well from what I've seen.
Regarding light bullets and penetration, there is plenty of hard evidence out there to prove the above post wrong. The 110gr CorBon DPX is an excellent penetrator and exhibits expansion even after penetrating hard barriers like car doors. The Barnes X bullet is one of the best out there.
bassoneer
Member
Hey guys...not to argue. This bullet may be good or bad, but the only thing I'm gonna say is that I've done a LOT of water jug tests with just about every manufacturer, type, and caliber of bullet out there. I really think there is a conversion of about 1.2 to go back and forth between what the water jugs do verses the 10% calibrated ballistic gel. That's just an estimation. Now, most bullets go into the 3rd jug. Every 9mm I've ever tested, and most of the .40's have gone into the 3rd jug. 180 grain .40's go into the 4th jug, along with a .357 magnum I tested. However, if you take a majority of the bullets that I've shot, and assume they go into the 3rd jug, that is between 12" and 18". To convert to the ballistic gel equivalent, that means the range is on the order of 10" to 15", which is how the bullets typically range in the gel (brassfetcher, et al). For the big boys that make it into the 4th jug, that range would be 15" to 20".
Now, back to the Hornady Critical Defense. I somewhat agree that they look little and insignificant. I have been considering getting some Buffalo Bore 158 grain swchp's to try. Right now, I have some of the new Winchester PDX ammo (like the FBI is going to use in .40 S&W). The best round that I've tested (and the one I'm carrying in my gun so far) is the Remington Golden Saber +P. I've also tried Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT and a few others. None of them have done horrible, but none have really done surprisingly better than the others. Do you guys like the 158 grain weight? I am also leaning toward that in my .357. Thanks, B
Spotteddog
Member
Bassoner,
The B/B 158 LSWCHP G/C +P is what I'm running out of a Ti J frame. While your gun in 1/2 again as heavy, expect recoil to still be "brisk" to say the least @ 1000 FPS out of a 2 inch! Or were you thinking of the standard pressure version with the same bullet from B/B?
The B/B 158 LSWCHP G/C +P is what I'm running out of a Ti J frame. While your gun in 1/2 again as heavy, expect recoil to still be "brisk" to say the least @ 1000 FPS out of a 2 inch! Or were you thinking of the standard pressure version with the same bullet from B/B?
bassoneer
Member
The B/B 158 LSWCHP G/C +P is what I'm running out of a Ti J frame. While your gun in 1/2 again as heavy, expect recoil to still be "brisk" to say the least @ 1000 FPS out of a 2 inch! Or were you thinking of the standard pressure version with the same bullet from B/B?
Spotteddog,
I'll probably stay with +P's. I have added a Pachmayr Decelerator Grip to the 638 so it doesn't feel as bad...actually its not bad at all. I might also test it in my 686 with a 4" barrel and see how it does. Thanks, B
Spotteddog,
I'll probably stay with +P's. I have added a Pachmayr Decelerator Grip to the 638 so it doesn't feel as bad...actually its not bad at all. I might also test it in my 686 with a 4" barrel and see how it does. Thanks, B
bassoneer
Member
OK. I just ordered 20 rounds of the 158 +P B/B LSWCHP G/C from Cabela's. I'll report back in on how they do. I expect they will do better than the Hornady Critical Defense, but I've also got some Winchester PDX1's in .38 +P to test...it will be interesting. B
anchors
US Veteran
I thought the Hornaday 110 Critical Defense 38 was a Non +P round,and your comparing it to +P rounds,that's like apples to watermelons.
bassoneer
Member
I compared apples to apples. You can get it in either +P or standard pressure. I tested the +P. Later, B
bassoneer
Member
Anchors...one more thing...the Critical Defense is probably fine. It sure did open up nicely. It may not be the best (most massive and penetrating bullet) available, but its certainly not the worst either. Later, B
anchors
US Veteran
I didn't know that,my local shop said it only came in non +P,and that's all they carry.
Sorry about my post.
Sorry about my post.
