Oh, and I forgot, haha, the 50 I shot, sized, was still the best groups I've ever gotten out of this gun, 2 ragged holes at 15 yds, 2 only because I still have to work on pulling/good form, but atleast even my mistake is consistent in this gun!!
Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not?
- Thread starter gehlsurf
- Start date
The only time I've seen it reported that Lee's T/L design was meant to be shot as is from the mold, is online in forums. FWIW alox lube works on the surface of the bullet, not filled grooves.
It could match if you wanted it to. It might be close enough to just uniform all your bullets up. Or it might pop through and not actually get sized.
Bullets might be fine to shoot as-cast or they might not. Lots of things can affect the actual diameter of a bullet as it drops from the mold. So, we cast over size and size and we get nice, uniform bullets.
Sometimes people find a mold, alloy and process that works as-cast. Somehow, I never have.
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DumpStick
US Veteran
From Lee Precision website, on the bullet mold page. I quote
"Most bullets from Lee molds can be used as cast without sizing."
Link :Hand Gun Bullet Molds - Lee Precision
Thanks for that info, but as I read it it is incidental that some T/L bullets can be shot straight from the mold, not designed to...
riversalmon
Member
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It was my understanding that the principal of the T/L bullet design was the modification of the lube grooves for the use of alox liquid lube. The inherent design of the T/L bullet seems to be cast, tumble lube, and load. It purposed to speed up production by eliminating the sizing stage. 25 years of success convinces me.
Qc Pistolero
Member
Take 2 bullet moulds of same model and they won't drop the same diameter bullets.I own aprox 3 dozens moulds and only 2 don't need sizing(funny;they both are from long gone manufacturer Ideal and both are WC,one in .38(115gr)and the other in .44(185gr)).Measure the chamber throats of revolvers and barrel of autos.That's what will determine if you need sizing.
I surface lube(LLA)only with bullets I will load under 1000FPS.BTW,I don't have TL bullet designs;only regular models designed with regular lube groove.I lube and let dry,size and relube.Then(I feel like giving away Kentucky fried chicken's secret formula),so as to remove the stickiness and do without the accumulation of lube in seating die,I coat them with baby powder(tumble them in a plastic pot with lid on).Really takes a little and it works.
As a bonus,the bores of my guns are as smooth as a baby's south end!
Qc
I surface lube(LLA)only with bullets I will load under 1000FPS.BTW,I don't have TL bullet designs;only regular models designed with regular lube groove.I lube and let dry,size and relube.Then(I feel like giving away Kentucky fried chicken's secret formula),so as to remove the stickiness and do without the accumulation of lube in seating die,I coat them with baby powder(tumble them in a plastic pot with lid on).Really takes a little and it works.
As a bonus,the bores of my guns are as smooth as a baby's south end!
Qc
gwpercle
Member
That's correct , cast bullets are typically larger than jacketed , die are made to size down the case enough to hold smaller jacketed bullets, sometimes the die is on the tight side of the tolerance scale too. Some cases are thicker walled and exaggerate the bulge . The fatter cast bullet will show as a bulge, as long as the round chambers it isn't a problem.
Sometimes it takes a bit trial and error to get the kinks worked out.
Gary
fredj338
Member
The design of the bullet precludes a lot of size reduction. The very shallow grooves get wiped off & if the bullets aren't 100% round, often an issue with Lee 6cav molds, then your bullets driving bands are not concentric. This will lead to accuracy issues.
So agian, the TL design solves no issue but if you size, potentially causes some issue. Less options, why i stick to conventional lube grooves, lubed or coated, you have more options.
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max503
Member
Always size them. When casting, if you don't get the mold totally closed, if it hangs up a few thousandths, those boolits will be bigger and they will jam up everything and even give you high pressure.
DumpStick
US Veteran
Again, I have never sized a Lee tumble-lubed bullet, with one exception.
Using the TL-314-90-SWC, which was designed for .32 caliber firearms, I size it down to .311 or .309 when using it in 30 caliber rifles. It makes for a serious bunny-thumper at ~1000 fps from a .30-30.
If you are getting oversize bullets because of junk on the face of the mold, or from improper casting technique, then perhaps it's time to review your casting methods.
Resizing, to try to repair an out of round casting, is a bandaid fix. Cast properly, the Lee tumble lube design is meant to shoot as-cast.
Using the TL-314-90-SWC, which was designed for .32 caliber firearms, I size it down to .311 or .309 when using it in 30 caliber rifles. It makes for a serious bunny-thumper at ~1000 fps from a .30-30.
If you are getting oversize bullets because of junk on the face of the mold, or from improper casting technique, then perhaps it's time to review your casting methods.
Resizing, to try to repair an out of round casting, is a bandaid fix. Cast properly, the Lee tumble lube design is meant to shoot as-cast.
Just put a micrometer on your "as cast" bullets and ask yourself if you want that out of round thing going down your barrel. I have yet to cast something out of a Lee mold that approached "round". I size everything to revolver cylinder throat size.
Stu
Stu
DumpStick
US Veteran
If the bullet is out of round, what difference does it make if the barrel swaged it round, or if a sizer swaged it round ?
I haven't had problems with out if round bullets from my Lee tumble lube molds. If I did have that problem, I would return the mold to Lee, and have them repair or replace it.
I haven't had problems with out if round bullets from my Lee tumble lube molds. If I did have that problem, I would return the mold to Lee, and have them repair or replace it.
The first mold I cast with was a Lee TL mold and it didn't take long to sell it downriver. I have two designs I still tumble lube with, a 95 gr 32 cal in 32 Long and a 158 gr 38 wadcutter. I use BLL, a thinned alox, and when dried you can barely se a brown cast to them. I size in a push through NOE die and recoat. They shoot well for what I want them to do.
I have had a Ranch Dog rifle mold that the designer dipped in LA up to the grooves and dried and have used a lubsizer to put conventional lube on some of those designs. Find what works for your guns, mine like sized bullets.
I have had a Ranch Dog rifle mold that the designer dipped in LA up to the grooves and dried and have used a lubsizer to put conventional lube on some of those designs. Find what works for your guns, mine like sized bullets.
Soothsayer
Member
Lee Tumble Lube
I have had Lee aluminum moulds dating back to the 1970's for round ball used during my muzzle loading days. I have a number for handgun and several for rifle and have found them satisfactory when normally sized and lubricated. I have also had success in taking conventional sized bullets and tumbling them in the Lee liquid lube.
For me the tumble lube moulds are a whole different story. In some cases I have found them just a bit too large for chambering in tight .45 acp chambers. In others, they seem a bit loose causing me to count on bullet obturation for proper fit. I now just avoid the tumble lube moulds.
At the same time, I still buy Lee conventional moulds because at the cost of a six cavity mould, I can turn out large quantities in relatively little time.
This is just my opinion and, doubtless, others have had much better results with tumble lube moulds.
I have had Lee aluminum moulds dating back to the 1970's for round ball used during my muzzle loading days. I have a number for handgun and several for rifle and have found them satisfactory when normally sized and lubricated. I have also had success in taking conventional sized bullets and tumbling them in the Lee liquid lube.
For me the tumble lube moulds are a whole different story. In some cases I have found them just a bit too large for chambering in tight .45 acp chambers. In others, they seem a bit loose causing me to count on bullet obturation for proper fit. I now just avoid the tumble lube moulds.
At the same time, I still buy Lee conventional moulds because at the cost of a six cavity mould, I can turn out large quantities in relatively little time.
This is just my opinion and, doubtless, others have had much better results with tumble lube moulds.
FWIW, I use the Cast Boolits site's Red's Liquid Lube (RLL). It is approximately 1/3 Liquid Alox, 1/3 Lundmark Liquid Paste Wax, and 1/3 mineral spirits. After tumble lubing with it, let it dry about 24 hours and it forms a hard slick coating that isn't sticky or even tacky. Try it you'll like it.
FWIW, if the unsized bullets shoot well, and the slight bulging of the cases doesn't cause chambering issues with any of your revolvers, I'd dispense with the sizing step altogether. If it isn't doing anything beneficial for you, why bother?
FWIW, if the unsized bullets shoot well, and the slight bulging of the cases doesn't cause chambering issues with any of your revolvers, I'd dispense with the sizing step altogether. If it isn't doing anything beneficial for you, why bother?
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cowboy4evr
Member
I quit tumble lubing years ago , except for 38special . But now I have switched to PC'ing the tumble lube designed bullets then size . I didn't want to buy another mold , so I just PC'd the current one of tumble lube design . It works fine , regards , Paul
I tried powder coating. It works and it is fairly easy, but the biggest problem I had was getting the temperature even enough throughout the oven to be hot enough to melt the powder without melting the lead. I probably need a better oven or a tray that spreads the heat more evenly.
So far the RLL tumble lube seems to be a lot easier, and the coating it leaves on the bullets seems to work just about as well for me.
So far the RLL tumble lube seems to be a lot easier, and the coating it leaves on the bullets seems to work just about as well for me.
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