UDATE: Range Rpt :advice on insdie the barrel rust/pitting in a 1920ish 1905 ?

[cporfe]

Update: Went to an indoor range here in near Austin and shot this revolver. I used Winchester White box 130 grn Full metal jacket and some 125 grn lead Cowboy Action loads I had left over (about 2/3rd power load). Shot at 10 yards. I know I should have tried 25 yards, but the sights are really small for these 65+ year old eyes. The WWB gave me a 3 inch group for 6 rounds from a supported rest. The cowboy loads went out to 4.5 inches which is about the extreme I see when I shoot this load in any of the .38 Spls I have (about 8 at any given time). Picture is attached. Red circle is the WWB and the Black is the cowboy load.

Good enough for me considering this gun is old and has the pitted barrel near the muzzle.

Thanks
Chris

Hi, I just received a 5-screw M&P .38 spl from around 1920ish. I say 1920ish because the number is: 453146. The frame, cylinder and barrel all have this number. The wood grips have this number in pencil on one panel. It's still soaking so no pictures until tomorrow maybe.

There was some rusting on the frame under the grips. Some pitting in a couple places and some minor surface rust in the frame, but nothing major.

Now my disappointment. The inside of the barrel was rusty. I soaked it in oil for a half hour than used a brass brush. Lots of rusty oil came out. I repeated the process but with less, but still discolored, residue after the patch. I was then able to see the inside better and there is heavy pitting just inside the muzzle end, but not on the outside. The barrel still shows rusty so it's soaking overnight.

My thought is to use the brass brush some more tomorrow and then dry. I thought maybe, I'd try some Flitz on a bore mop for awhile to polish the inside of the barrel up a little bit. I know I can't do anything about the pitting. Should I use the Flitz then oil and shoot or just oil and shoot and see what happens?

Your advice would be appreciated.

Chris

A couple pictures from the auction site added.

 

[LEO918]

Shoot some lead bullets through it. You might be surprised at how much better it will look.

 

[rct269]

My knee-jerk reaction is Job One is to stop the corrosion. I'm sure there are several products/compounds which will accomplish this, I recommend CorrosionX.

And LEO918's perhaps tongue in cheek comment is a sure enough fact.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[biku324]

I've had really good results using Semachrome and tight-fitting patches to polish rough borrels and chambers. I got most of the pits out of a 19th century 12 gauge double barrel that way - it took patience and lots of patches.

 

[DWalt]

There is no good way to reverse bore damage. About all you can do is to try to scrub out the rust as best you can with a wire brush and solvent. There are also some abrasive pastes that may help. But it will never look or shoot like new again.

BTW, you can use either hydrochloric acid or Naval Jelly to remove bore rust. But it will also remove any bluing it contacts. And it won't remove pits.

 

[Absalom]

Hi, I just received a 5-screw M&P .38 spl from around 1920ish. I say 1920ish because the number is: 453146. The frame, cylinder and barrel all have this number. The wood grips have this number in pencil on one panel. .......

It's almost certainly mid-1923.

...I soaked it in oil for a half hour than used a brass brush. Lots of rusty oil came out. I repeated the process but with less, but still discolored, residue after the patch. I was then able to see the inside better and there is heavy pitting just inside the muzzle end, .....

My thought is to use the brass brush some more tomorrow and then dry. I thought maybe, I'd try some Flitz on a bore mop for awhile to polish the inside of the barrel up a little bit. I know I can't do anything about the pitting. Should I use the Flitz then oil and shoot or just oil and shoot and see what happens?
....

As was said, the important thing is to get the active corrosion out and then prevent it from continuing. You seem to be on a good path to accomplish that.

It's not a target match gun and you wouldn't expect competition accuracy from a 4" fixed sight gun anyway. I doubt you'll notice much when shooting it. Just take a bit extra care cleaning and oiling afterward.

The hit you may take on the re-sale price due to the cosmetics if you ever want to get rid of it is unfortunately unavoidable. You simply can't buff off enough barrel steel to smooth out deep pits.

 

[cporfe]

Thanks for all the advice. I've looked at it again in the daylight after some more scrubbing. It's in worse shape than I originally thought. Some of the cylinders are rusty too.

I'm going to soak it again, scrub like hell, then get it ready to shoot. It'll do what I want in that regards. As for resale, I think Absalom is right. I paid way more than it's actually worth. Another bust from GB. I should know better than to buy any gun on any site that says "call with questions" and has so little info other than a standard run down of the manufacturer's info and "slight pitting at the muzzle".

Also, that you for the born-on-date info. I was extrapolating from the 4th Edition based on a linear average of number made per year. Always just a wag using that method.

Chris

 

[824tsv]

If it was me, I would send it back and look for something better if thats possible?

 

[cporfe]

I wish I could send it back. But it was "no return or refund" auction. I think I'll only buy used if I can see it.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Get some Blue Wonder cleaner and follow the instructions on cleaning the bore. Will work on the cylinder chambers too and won't affect the bluing.

 

[RMFnLA]

Agree that stopping the corrosion is imperative.

I wrap steel wool into an oversized brass/bronze brush (.40 or .45) and go at it with plenty of WD-40. Follow up with oiled patches.

Same for the chambers, but for that I chuck the brush into my Foredam (a drill will work, too).

No finish to worry about so no reason to not get aggressive.

 

[moosedog]

Your oil, soak, bronze brush with Flitz is the way to go. Over a period of several days of this you will get most of the rust out. Just make sure you protect the crown at the muzzle when running the rod down. Use a rod guide if you have one.
I've saved dozens of handgun and rifle bores with the same method using Kroil and JB polish which you can buy from Brownell's or maybe Midway. Nothing penetrates like Kroil.
You'd be surprised at how accurately some pitted bores will shoot. It's not a target gun anyway, but I believe it will be accurate enough to surprise you. It's not a bad looking gun. Good luck.

 

[series guy]

The only way to lose money on your gun is to sell it. If you shoot it and enjoy it you will find it money well spent.

 

[daddio202]

I am in agreement with the prior replies in this post and just wanted to add that after all the scrubbing and oiling is done to maybe try some Mothers mag polish on some patches to smooth out any micro scratches or grooves created by all the scrubbing and rust removal. I did this on my 1919 .38 Regulation police which had some bore pitting. I often hit the 10 ring with it, so I am happy about how mine came out. I suppose it is probably the same as using Flits at the end. Good luck and it may just end up shooting a little better than you expect!

 

[cporfe]

Lots of good suggestions. I finished the work I was willing to do this afternoon. Used my drill and brass brush. Also added some plain old penetrating oil. Then some Semichrome and a bore mop. We'll see how it shoots next month. Not enough time with all the Doctors appointments this month.

Thanks everyone.

Chris

 

[Waveski]

From what I see of the general condition in the images I never would have guessed. The grips look really nice. Too late now , but if I were in your shoes I would have contacted the seller and negotiated , regardless of the return policy. What king of feedback did you leave for the guy???

Too bad about the bore , but you still have a very classy shooter. You may well be surprised with how well it performs , flawed bore or no. Shooting a prewar K frame is a very rewarding experience. Feed it 158 gr lrn and it will be happy. I would be interested to hear a range report when that time comes.

 

[glowe]

Nice looking M&P. I am not so much in the "get ALL the rust out or it will continue" camp. Clean it as best you can and keep the chambers and barrel oiled and no more rust will occur. The methods above will not get deep enough into the pits to assure that you have removed everything and do not believe you have to, so get it out to the range and enjoy!

The only way to completely remove iron oxide (Fe2O3) is to soak the areas with phosphoric acid (Naval Jelly) which will get into the pores and pits of the steel, but it would also immediately remove the bluing if even a drop gets on the finish. It can do wonders, but unless you have had a lot of experience using acids, I would not do it to that gun.

 

[RGVshooter]

The revolver can be easily saved. All you need is some Rem oil, OO steel wool, and a brass bore jag. Never use a steel brush as tempting as it might be. Steel wool is soft enough to get the job done. Rem oil and steel wool works wonders on the exterior surface of the gun and although you're stuck with any pitting that there may be, the rust can be removed by wrapping some steel wool around the cleaning jag and lots of Rem oil and scrub the inside of the cylinders and barrel back & forth. It's gonna take a couple hours. There's nothing you can do about the rust, that is caused by a lack of maintenance e.g. not cleaning it after shooting. If you shoot the gun and then clean & oil it afterwards then it will be fine.

I think if you did that, then shoot it, clean it & oil it down afterwards then whatever traces of rust inside the barrel & cylinders will be gone...

 

[handejector]

In the 70s, I bought a really worn old M&P. I don't remember the exact vintage, but it was a RB with original black hard rubber grips worn nearly smooth. 5" nickel with about 15% nickel remaining and brown patina. The bore looked like it was lined with black fuzzy felt.
After much scrubbing with Hoppe's, I could barely tell the lands from the grooves. Of course it had the thin, lousy front sight and tiny U notch, but the eyes were young and at least the sights had little glare because the sights had that dull brown patina. The action was superb and timing was excellent. This was before the forcing cone was introduced, so the timing and tight action were important.
I could shoot back then, and that old gun grouped as well as my K-38!

 

[bluetopper]

Soak it in diesel, scrub the bore with diesel.