Ukraine Flips the Script

[biku324]

It looks like Ukraine intends to hold the parts of Russia seized after attacking across the Russian border just as Russia did to them. Nice to see a biter getting bitten.

It seems like a real invasion that started as an incursion. The seizure of the station controlling the last NG pipeline from Russia to Europe has to sting.

 

[swsig]

Putin claims he wants to acquire Ukrainian land for peace. It looks like he'll now face the humiliating prospect of having to swap Ukrainian land for Russian land to get his "peace". His "special military operation" has failed from Day One, and Ukraine's invasion has now added to that. I would like to think that machinations are now ongoing inside or outside of the Kremlin to remove him from office.

 

[biku324]

Indeed. His plan seems, well, unsound. And the below figures are from December.

WASHINGTON, Dec 12 (Reuters) - A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday.

The report also assessed that Moscow's losses in personnel and armored vehicles to Ukraine's military have set back Russia's military modernization by 18 years, the source said.

reuters.com

Here's a report from April:

The overall death toll - of more than 50,000 - is eight times higher than the only official public acknowledgement of fatality numbers ever given by Moscow in September 2022.

The actual number of Russian deaths is likely to be much higher.
Our analysis does not include the deaths of militia in Russian-occupied Donetsk and Luhansk - in eastern Ukraine. If they were added, the death toll on the Russian side would be even higher.

Russia'''s meat grinder soldiers - 50,000 confirmed dead

 

[UncleEd]

It looks like the continued NATO/U.S. assistance to Ukraine is paying off.

Will Ukraine's successes topple Putin? From what I've read, his replacements could be worse.

The "ace" up Putin's sleeve might well be Belarus. If he can get its dictator to help by opening another combat front, he'll get some breathing room and put more pressure on the West in helping Ukraine.

I believe Putin believes time is on his side and the West will weaken its support of Ukraine. Elements within the Western alliance have never really cared what happens to Ukraine.

 

[pharmer]

Much as I'd like to see Putin gone "transfer of power" won't be orderly. Naturally, as with anywhere on Earth, the regular folk will pay. Joe

 

[GaryS]

Russia apparently has decided that NATO nations providing assistance to Ukraine are now "fair game" for some sort of attack. Probably not openly, but sabotage of military training and production facilities in nearby countries such as Poland.

While it's nice to see Ukraine punch back, especially after we've been told that they are on the verge of collapse, it might have been smarter to hit and then return to their borders.

Then again, what do I know?

 

[Rudi]

Much as I'd like to see Putin gone "transfer of power" won't be orderly. Naturally, as with anywhere on Earth, the regular folk will pay. Joe

Puti's personal security must really be something.

 

[Mr. Vito]

Zelensky needs to be careful and not push Putin to use a weapon that Ukraine does not have, and certainly cannot defend against, i.e. tactical atomic or nuclear weapons. It Putin used such on Ukraine the whole world would scream, but Putin's friends like China and North Korea would stand with him regardless. And if Putin decides to go this route, it breaks the history of not using nukes that has lasted since 8/9/45, and would give a bit more seeming acceptance to Israel using the same on Teheran. Interesting times.

 

[Ματθιας]

Indeed. His plan seems, well, unsound. And the below figures are from December.

WASHINGTON, Dec 12 (Reuters) - A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday.

The report also assessed that Moscow's losses in personnel and armored vehicles to Ukraine's military have set back Russia's military modernization by 18 years, the source said.

reuters.com

Here's a report from April:

The overall death toll - of more than 50,000 - is eight times higher than the only official public acknowledgement of fatality numbers ever given by Moscow in September 2022.

The actual number of Russian deaths is likely to be much higher.
Our analysis does not include the deaths of militia in Russian-occupied Donetsk and Luhansk - in eastern Ukraine. If they were added, the death toll on the Russian side would be even higher.

Russia'''s meat grinder soldiers - 50,000 confirmed dead

"Sources"!? Who are these "sources"? They're always anonymous aren't they. Frankly, I don't believe anything coming from the US .gov or the mockingbird news media?

If all those losses are true, then why is Russia STILL grinding away and taking territory?

BTW what are the WIA and KIA numbers on the Ukrainian side? Strange how western "news" media never reports on that.

So, Russia got a tiny fraction of it's territory invaded, then what? It's not going to change the final outcome of the war.

The fact is, this war needs to stop while Ukraine still has a nation and a male population. But, the US/NATO will fight this proxy war to the last Ukrainian. GO Ukraine!!

 

[biku324]

As for, I prefer nations that fight for their own freedom rather than those which fight to steal land and subjugate populations.

 

[Ματθιας]

As for, I prefer nations that fight for their own freedom rather than those which fight to steal land and subjugate populations.

So you're on the side of the local populations of A-stan and Iraq who were fighting for their freedom, land and didn't want to be subjected by the US? From their perspective, they saw/see the US as an invader and oppressor. I could be wrong, though.

Add Somalia in, too.

 

[ladder13]

Follow the money paying close attention to govt contractors.

 

[smoothshooter]

What Putin wants is a land corridor down eastern Ukraine to build highways and railroads for access to a warm-weather seaport on or near the Mediterranean Ocean.
None of the talking heads in the mainstream news media outlets will mention that for some reason.

 

[jpage]

Putin claims he wants to acquire Ukrainian land for peace. It looks like he'll now face the humiliating prospect of having to swap Ukrainian land for Russian land to get his "peace". His "special military operation" has failed from Day One, and Ukraine's invasion has now added to that. I would like to think that machinations are now ongoing inside or outside of the Kremlin to remove him from office.

Using a fifth-floor window

 

[swsig]

Using a fifth-floor window

I'd go higher than that.

 

[LVSteve]

If all those losses are true, then why is Russia STILL grinding away and taking territory?

BTW what are the WIA and KIA numbers on the Ukrainian side? Strange how western "news" media never reports on that.

The Russians are still grinding away and taking territory because they are Russians. You cannot equate our sensitivity to casualties to what goes on in other countries. If 5% of the stuff I have seen on various Twitter feeds involving explosive drones driving into people were to happen to US forces somewhere, you would have Vietnam era sized demonstrations to get us out.

Their leaders don't think like us, it's that simple. Should their public object, they get told by guys in balaclavas to sit down, face front, and STHU. What the media and our leaders never say out loud is that Russia is now a failed democracy. Sure, they have elections and all that, but a 'bad' election result can soon be fixed. See: Belarus, Venezuela, Myanmar etc.

As for Ukrainian casualties, I agree, they are kept on the down low by our media. Root around the BBC News website or Reuters and you will find estimates, but they are all over the map. In November 2022 the US estimate was 100,000 on each side, but I suspect that was largely guesswork. Ukraine war: US estimates 200,000 military casualties on all sides

Zelensky said point blank in February 2024 that Ukraine has lost 35,000 dead, but I wouldn't be surprised to find it's 50% more. This is the 21st century, so think optics. Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia'''s full-scale invasion

Russian casualties? I doubt even the Russians know. If we go by the old adage that it takes a 3:1 ratio to perform a successful invasion of a peer country, then we can estimate Russian losses to be at least 3x that of the Ukraine, given their lack of success. Using Zelensky's number, that puts Russian dead in six figures.

 

[Ματθιας]

The Russians are still grinding away and taking territory because they are Russians. You cannot equate our sensitivity to casualties to what goes on in other countries. If 5% of the stuff I have seen on various Twitter feeds involving explosive drones driving into people were to happen to US forces somewhere, you would have Vietnam era sized demonstrations to get us out.

Their leaders don't think like us, it's that simple. Should their public object, they get told by guys in balaclavas to sit down, face front, and STHU. What the media and our leaders never say out loud is that Russia is now a failed democracy. Sure, they have elections and all that, but a 'bad' election result can soon be fixed. See: Belarus, Venezuela, Myanmar etc.

As for Ukrainian casualties, I agree, they are kept on the down low by our media. Root around the BBC News website or Reuters and you will find estimates, but they are all over the map. In November 2022 the US estimate was 100,000 on each side, but I suspect that was largely guesswork. Ukraine war: US estimates 200,000 military casualties on all sides

Zelensky said point blank in February 2024 that Ukraine has lost 35,000 dead, but I wouldn't be surprised to find its 50% more. This is the 21st century, so think optics. Ukraine war: Zelensky says 31,000 troops killed since Russia'''s full-scale invasion

Russian casualties? I doubt even the Russians know. If we go by the old adage that it takes a 3:1 ratio to perform a successful invasion of a peer country, then we can estimate Russian losses to be at least 3x that of the Ukraine, given their lack of success. Using Zelensky's number, that puts Russian dead in six figures.

I agree Russians are willing to accept casualties.

The point I'm making is that the OP is saying 90% casualties for the invading force. NO military can sustain 90% casualties and keep an offensive going. NONE.

Do you believe anything from Zelensky? I don't.

The US/NATO will fight until the last Ukrainian as there's too much money involved to quit now! When it's politically untenable the US will abandon them. Zelensky knows as long as the war keeps going so does he.

Ive read that the average age of the fighting man on the Ukrainian side is 40+ years old. If that's true a whole generation of young men are dead. Again, this war needs to end.

Sorry, I'm not reading anything from the mockingbird news that lies about everything.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Stalin must be rolling in his grave.

 

[Heinz]

What Putin wants is a land corridor down eastern Ukraine to build highways and railroads for access to a warm-weather seaport on or near the Mediterranean Ocean.
None of the talking heads in the mainstream news media outlets will mention that for some reason.

The Mediterranean is a "SEA" Putin would get access to the Black Sea and then through the Bosphorus Straights to the Aegean Sea, and then to the Mediterranean Sea.

But your point that he wants access to ports that can stay open in the winter is correct. Geography is important

 

[biku324]

So you're on the side of the local populations of A-stan and Iraq who were fighting for their freedom, land and didn't want to be subjected by the US? From their perspective, they saw/see the US as an invader and oppressor. I could be wrong, though.

Add Somalia in, too.

No and no. In both Afghanistan, and in similar ways Somalia, the vast majority of people just want to live decently to their standards; in neither can they because of virulent, heavily armed, and inhumane groups that would rather get their followers to die and to kill as many of those who aren't 'with them' as they feel like killing than to be out of power. Millions suffer because of the actions and beliefs of tens of thousands who could care less about other people's lives.

Don't read about this; go see.