Unanticipated consequences with new cylinder installed

[DCWilson]

First, I know that fitting a new cylinder is not trivial. But I'm trying to understand the process. If I can do this myself, I will -- but if I sense I am engaged in something that a first-time gunsmith should not be attempting, I'll have a professional do it.

I have a 296, and as so many have I want to replace the titanium cylinder with a stainless steel cylinder. The extra three ounces should take a little sting out of the perceived recoil.

So I put the new cylinder in the gun today for a trial fit and find that the cylinder carries up nicely all the way around -- but then the action jams, the trigger won't move the last 1/64 of an inch, and the hammer won't fall.

Is this a hand problem, or something with the face of the ratchets on the back of the cylinder? Just trying to understand. The cylinder stop drops into position nicely and holds the charge hole in alignment with the barrel. The problem is that I just can't pull the trigger far enough to disengage and let the hammer fall.

I have a new hand that I bought with the new cylinder so that I can leave the old hand fitted to the titanium cylinder in case I ever want to reverse this process. But neither hand will let the hammer drop.

Insight welcome. Thanks in advance.

David Wilson

 

[snowman]

I will defer to more experienced members on this, but it sure sounds to me like the teeth on the steel cylinder's ratchet are contoured for shorter hand travel. If the cylinder stop is locked in the stop notch before the hand is at the highest point of its travel, and the tooth on the ratchet is shaped so as to not permit the hand to move any further, that would produce the result you're experiencing, it seems to me.

But I take it that the cylinder/hand you ordered were designed to work in that particular model. If that is the case, I don't know what to say. As I said, I'll defer to the others.

Andy

 

[tomcatt51]

If the extractors (stars) are the same style, install your new cylinder with the old star. Or, you'll have to fit (file) the ratchets on the new extractor (star). Just a fitting issue.

 

[bountyhunter]

You may not notice, but the tip of the hand carries up the ratchet until cylinder lock. Then the hand has to slip off the ratchet and "pass by" it on the right hand side (viewed from rear of gun) as the trigger continues to be pulled to drop the hammer. With a full sized ratchet and new hand, there is not enough room in the space between the edge of the ratchet and the edge of the frame window for the hand to pass by.

Since hands are relatively cheap, and certainly easier to fit (or replace) than the extractor, you could stone the left hand edge (the edge nearest the ratchet) of the hand to allow more clearance and see if it gets to where it carries up well but can "pass by" after cylinder lock without dragging. Go slow, just take a couple of thou off at a time. You only have to stone the top part of the hand where it goes by the ratchet, not the whole piece.

usually, you check all cylinder positions and stop stoning the hand when the loosest ratchet position carries up and clears perfectly. The tighter ratchets are then "balanced" by polishing them where needed until they all carry up the same (the last part is not so trivial to do.) You might get lucky and get good carry up and trigger release just from shaving the left edge of the hand.

 

[DCWilson]

Thank you all for the comments. I had thought about switching stars but kind of didn't want to do that if I could avoid it.

Bountyhunter, your description of the process told me exactly what I needed to know; I just couldn't visualize what the hand was doing at the end of its travel, and now I see it.

David W.

 

[tomcatt51]

Thank you all for the comments. I had thought about switching stars but kind of didn't want to do that if I could avoid it.

Bountyhunter, your description of the process told me exactly what I needed to know; I just couldn't visualize what the hand was doing at the end of its travel, and now I see it.

David W.

Look at the old star and the new star. You'll be able to see how much and where the ratchets are filed/fitted. This isn't something you do with a stone, you use a file. If you assemble the gun without the hammer you can look in thru the frame and see what the hand and star are doing. If you put some layout die (or use a Sharpie) on the star you can reach thru the hand window (with the hand removed but the cylinder stop holding the cylinder indexed) and scribe the ratchet(s) to help you see what needs filed and at what angle. Helpfull if you've never fitted a new star. What BountyHunter described doing only works when installing/fitting a slightly thicker hand to compensate for wear on a previously fitted star.

Using the old star (if they're the same style) is by far the easiest route when changing cylinders. 3 of my revolvers have had their SS cylinders replaced with Titanium versions. They (cylinders) all ran about .002" longer than the SS cylinder so they tightened the barrel cylinder gap slightly and required only setting (shimming in my case) the endshake when used with the original star.

 

[bountyhunter]

If you are fitting the ratchet stars, I find this helpful:

1) remove the hammer, rebound slide and spring. I just install the trigger/hand and the cylinder/yoke. Leave the sideplate off. You can better feel resistance as the hand slips off the ratchet with the RB slide/spring removed. makes it easier to get it just right.

2) I use a red sharpie to mark the top of the ratchet I am working on (I do them one at a time) so that makes it easy to index the cylinder to the right position after taking it out to trim.

3) As posted above, a black sharpie can be used to mark up the ratchet faces to see where the rubbing is happening.

good luck

 

[DCWilson]

Thank you all. This morning I can report a successfully installed cylinder, hand and ratchet are interacting properly, and a .44 range rod shows perfect barrel/cylinder alignment.

Off to the range at my earliest opportunity!

David Wilson

 

[jrm53]

Problems

This is what I love about this forum, No BS just good solid help and advice from people who know. Jeff

 

[tomcatt51]

Thank you all. This morning I can report a successfully installed cylinder, hand and ratchet are interacting properly, and a .44 range rod shows perfect barrel/cylinder alignment.

Off to the range at my earliest opportunity!

David Wilson

Did you use the old star or fit the new one?

 

[bountyhunter]

Thank you all. This morning I can report a successfully installed cylinder, hand and ratchet are interacting properly, and a .44 range rod shows perfect barrel/cylinder alignment.

Off to the range at my earliest opportunity!

David Wilson

Good job.

 

[DCWilson]

Did you use the old star or fit the new one?

Old star, old hand. I was hesitant about this approach until I made a trial assembly and saw that everything worked.

I was ready to launch into adjustment of the new ratchet and hand if there appeared to be problems, but I saw none. The new star and hand are available for future projects.

David Wilson

 

[tomcatt51]

Old star, old hand. I was hesitant about this approach until I made a trial assembly and saw that everything worked.

I was ready to launch into adjustment of the new ratchet and hand if there appeared to be problems, but I saw none. The new star and hand are available for future projects.

David Wilson

Glad to hear it went well. Some of these things get made out to be a much bigger deal than they usually are.

 

[H Richard]

Same way I installed a .38 Special cylinder in my 38 S&W Pre-Victory. Used the old star and hand and everything dropped into place and works great. Now I can just switch cylinders back and forth.