UNBELIEVABLE: $1200 OF JUNK FROM THE PC

[Vulcan Bob]

A definit bummer, glad you have the skills to fix it. S&W does not have a monopoly on this, you aught to try calling Colt with a problem. I bought a new 3rd gen SAA that had a few issue's, called Colt and was told they dident want my opinion of what was wrong, send it to them and they would tell me what if anything was wrong. Told em to forget I called and I would fix thier piece of crap myself. Should have known better after the great AR-15 disaster I had with them about 25 years ago!

 

[kennyb]

kennyb, the problem with my 29-2, when resolved was the result of a previous owner trying to do some freelance "custom" work. As far as christmas I do have a new to me model 15-2 U.S.A.F. waiting to be unwrapped. What has gotten a lot of former s&w fans to revolt is the relentless crap shoot of weather or not the gun you by new nowadays is going to work or send it back to factory to be "fixed". That is nonsense! And to add insult to injury is the price of the guns. A few of the reasons I feel this way is because a 586 nickle gun I bought new for duty service in the 80's. Within one week the nickle began to peel off the cylinder, the model 10-? new, that shot 4 inches low and to the left, or a model 19 that the cylinder froze in and by forcing it open the yoke was bent so it went to s&w to be repaired...it left with a very bright deep blue job and came back with a dull black finish, or the new 686 that shot groups the size of your ego..or the new 442 that the frame cracked on under the barrel, or the model 28 that shot 3 foot groups at 25 yards until the factory "adjusted the sight"-right,these are but a small number of the experiences that I have had since the mid 1980's with s&w of the new age. Prices for their products are way too high for the lack of consistent quality that they used to be known for.

well from reading your response...you have had major issues with S&W for many years...but you apparently continue to buy...thats odd...i too have bought them for many years and own various ones that are from over 100 years old up to and including the brand new pc one's...i certainly cannot say that i have experienced all these problems but....if i had i certainly would not continue to buy them...
just saying

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

I'm sure if you asked for a new trigger lever they would send a few out.

It's more for shipping than the part......

 

[Jswiney9]

well from reading your response...you have had major issues with S&W for many years...but you apparently continue to buy...thats odd...i too have bought them for many years and own various ones that are from over 100 years old up to and including the brand new pc one's...i certainly cannot say that i have experienced all these problems but....if i had i certainly would not continue to buy them...
just saying

From your posts it seems that you are implying that a lot of these gentlemen are making this stuff up or just flaming S&W? I personally haven't had a problem with any of my guns but I have witnessed a telephone call go very very badly on a M&P 15-22 when my relative just asked on the status of the gun. When he got his firearm back all it had with it was a note saying "updated to latest specs".(granted the gun worked fine ever since, really cant ask for more than that BUT he wanted to know exactly what was done to his gun as any customer would and they would not tell him anything/said they could not tell him anything.) IMO that is bad customer service, also had a LGS owner here call about them and asked about the problems with the guns and he got the shaft as well. He had 4 guns sitting in his shop at once and was pretty upset that people blamed HIM for selling junk, smith wouldnt give him any answers and said they hadnt heard of any problems with the guns.
There are STILL people sending these guns in a year later and getting that same response, "we arent aware of any problems" Things like that are what have me hesitant of buying a new model S&W, of course im just 25 years old and do not know my butt from a hole in the ground but bad business practice goes a long way.
What if I buy my 629 and have a serious problem with it, only to have to send it back and they tell me that they have no idea what is wrong with it or what was done to it, how would that help me in future endeavors? Usually if a car messes up and I go to my mechanic he tells me what was wrong, from things like that I have learned to work on cars on my own now if i experience a problem such as the one I had prior.
I guess what im trying to say is just because you have had great experience with a product does not mean that everyone else will have those same results. Maybe some of these people are buying based on the long time track record of S&W (i know i did, my grandfather told me to never trust my life to something that wouldnt work, buy S&W) Here recently that hasnt been the case, or so it would seem from these forums, of course it could just be that more people that have problems would come to a forum looking for answers! I feel bad for the OP in this case, a PC gun should not have had any issues at all.

 

[turbo38gn]

I have heard this statement several times, "a PC gun should not have a problem"... you're right, but a human built it, and quite frankly they ain't perfect.. the guy in the PC department ain't your minimum wage guy, new at it either... I believe the reality to be that it is unusual for these guns to be problematic, more like the last statement .... someone with a problem looking on the internet for an answer or just plain wanting to vent and flame.. all of which may be justified in someones mind... but that still doesn't make it right..

One broken part and this topic.... $1200 OF JUNK FROM PC,.... sorry, this is over the top in my book. That's it in a nutshell. Yes, he has the right to be frustrated, I would be too. But this kind of public response is not warranted in my book. And then the typical follow up of the stories about any perceived problem with SW needs to be shared, pig pile mentality just doesn't seem right in my book. I love the stories about a problem was repaired, promptly, but... yes but they didn't tell me what was wrong... ohhhh, it works great but.... instead, in my book, how bout thanks for standing behind your product S&W... I'm done...

Happy Holidays, to all

 

[Tango 106]

To me, S&W revolvers were by far the best and that is why I kept going back to them, hoping that I had just ended up with the exceptional clunker at times. After 20 years of this, it was clear that S&W had evolved into a very different product. The point the OP made clear is that the pistol was sent out the door with a major defect, and it came from the PC! It was "the last straw" for him, it was not a vent or rant about one defect, it is the frustration many of us feel because if you put down $1,000.00 or more for a gun it is very reasonable to expect it to work. And for generations the highest quality revolvers were S&W or some Colts. Not the state of affairs now.
And this state of affairs is not limited to S&W. When my dept. allowed auto pistols I got a new Sig 226 made in europe.
It was a work of art that was the most accurate pistol I had owned. When Sig built a factory in this country, their unique quality and reliability fell significantly, after the armed forces trials snubbed them. This decline is not limited to S&W. Part of the problem is the quality control of the parts. MIM parts can be used with satisfactory results, but some part demand human touch and sight, rather than depending on technology to mass produce parts that are supposed to be exactly the same deminsions and therefore work because of the nature of the process used.

Merry Christmas and keep your powder dry.

 

[Jswiney9]

I have heard this statement several times, "a PC gun should not have a problem"... you're right, but a human built it, and quite frankly they ain't perfect.. the guy in the PC department ain't your minimum wage guy, new at it either... I believe the reality to be that it is unusual for these guns to be problematic, more like the last statement .... someone with a problem looking on the internet for an answer or just plain wanting to vent and flame.. all of which may be justified in someones mind... but that still doesn't make it right..

One broken part and this topic.... $1200 OF JUNK FROM PC,.... sorry, this is over the top in my book. That's it in a nutshell. Yes, he has the right to be frustrated, I would be too. But this kind of public response is not warranted in my book. And then the typical follow up of the stories about any perceived problem with SW needs to be shared, pig pile mentality just doesn't seem right in my book. I love the stories about a problem was repaired, promptly, but... yes but they didn't tell me what was wrong... ohhhh, it works great but.... instead, in my book, how bout thanks for standing behind your product S&W... I'm done...

Happy Holidays, to all

I have worked in customer service and now I produce a product that I put my hard work into making every night of the week, i make sure that product goes out based on precise guidelines set forth by my company and I take great pride in that process. If a customer called me personally and asked me why he recieved a defective product or what happened to cause that defect, i would gladly explain it to him or do whatever i could to fix it. IF I FIXED IT, and he/she had more questions i would gladly answer those as well. As a provider of service or product you should do ANYTHING to make that customer happy not just fix it and go on. I guess some just desire a little more effort than others. You can not blame the OP for getting on here and venting, AND this is an internet forum so of course others are going to share their opinions wether they be good or bad. Like I said, I personally have never ever had a problem with customer service from S&W but I know those who have. It happens, just because someone shares an experience it doesnt mean they are flaming the company. Sometimes its just hard to look at the negatives of something you love, trust me, i drive fords.

Merry Christmas everyone, cant we all just get along?

 

[kennyb]

From your posts it seems that you are implying that a lot of these gentlemen are making this stuff up or just flaming S&W? I personally haven't had a problem with any of my guns but I have witnessed a telephone call go very very badly on a M&P 15-22 when my relative just asked on the status of the gun. When he got his firearm back all it had with it was a note saying "updated to latest specs".(granted the gun worked fine ever since, really cant ask for more than that BUT he wanted to know exactly what was done to his gun as any customer would and they would not tell him anything/said they could not tell him anything.) IMO that is bad customer service, also had a LGS owner here call about them and asked about the problems with the guns and he got the shaft as well. He had 4 guns sitting in his shop at once and was pretty upset that people blamed HIM for selling junk, smith wouldnt give him any answers and said they hadnt heard of any problems with the guns.
There are STILL people sending these guns in a year later and getting that same response, "we arent aware of any problems" Things like that are what have me hesitant of buying a new model S&W, of course im just 25 years old and do not know my butt from a hole in the ground but bad business practice goes a long way.
What if I buy my 629 and have a serious problem with it, only to have to send it back and they tell me that they have no idea what is wrong with it or what was done to it, how would that help me in future endeavors? Usually if a car messes up and I go to my mechanic he tells me what was wrong, from things like that I have learned to work on cars on my own now if i experience a problem such as the one I had prior.
I guess what im trying to say is just because you have had great experience with a product does not mean that everyone else will have those same results. Maybe some of these people are buying based on the long time track record of S&W (i know i did, my grandfather told me to never trust my life to something that wouldnt work, buy S&W) Here recently that hasnt been the case, or so it would seem from these forums, of course it could just be that more people that have problems would come to a forum looking for answers! I feel bad for the OP in this case, a PC gun should not have had any issues at all.

mr winey....instead of trying to twist what i posted,why not go back and read what i said?my message was i found it odd that someone would continue to deal with S&W (or any company) if they had all these problems over an extended period...and i still do....you mention the 629 if it cannot be repaired...guess what?if it's under warranty and beyond their ability to repair,you get a new one...for free...pretty poor service huh?
you mention a pc gun not having any issues at all....get real..it's mechanical/man made...of course they do on occasion...
you mention your relative sent in his 15-22 for repair...after repairing the gun for free a detailed explanation to your satisfaction wasn't received....wanna bet what the repair/adjustment to the 15-22 was? i'm going to guess it directly relates to his complaint of fte/ftf as most are on these rifles...
anyway...have a great holiday season and remember...there are any number of makers of guns out there...none i know of are entirely perfect (as you suggested the performance center should be) nevertheless they are there to sell you guns...

 

[41 fan]

Turbo,
If your first post was worded like your last, there would not be a problem. Your implication was clear. You accused BH of damaging his new revolver himself. I stand by my original post. Your response is what I would expect to see on Sigforum. Is there any reason we cannot be respecful of each other on this forum? I don't see why not. Dean

 

[W.E.G.]

What were y'all saying?

I was petting my 32-20.

 

[Jswiney9]

mr winey....instead of trying to twist what i posted,why not go back and read what i said?my message was i found it odd that someone would continue to deal with S&W (or any company) if they had all these problems over an extended period...and i still do....you mention the 629 if it cannot be repaired...guess what?if it's under warranty and beyond their ability to repair,you get a new one...for free...pretty poor service huh?
you mention a pc gun not having any issues at all....get real..it's mechanical/man made...of course they do on occasion...
you mention your relative sent in his 15-22 for repair...after repairing the gun for free a detailed explanation to your satisfaction wasn't received....wanna bet what the repair/adjustment to the 15-22 was? i'm going to guess it directly relates to his complaint of fte/ftf as most are on these rifles...
anyway...have a great holiday season and remember...there are any number of makers of guns out there...none i know of are entirely perfect (as you suggested the performance center should be) nevertheless they are there to sell you guns...

Happy Holidays............. nothing else to say here

 

[leas327]

I am thinking that problems have been around as long as the guns. I will spit some more rehtoric abound being handmade and guess what. That means when a guy comes to work out of sick days and feeling like crap you are not going to get his A grade work. Maybe he is the best around but on that day he just wasn't feeling it. I will also bet that not everyone that works at Smith glorifies the fact that they get to work on Smiths. It is just a job to some people.

The few times I have called smith with a problem they were more than willing to help. That gun should have not left the factory and that sucks for you and them. Cause now they are going to have to do a free repair to try and keep a customer happy and they probably want to go through the entire gun and make sure everything is 100%. If a guy missed that who knows what else was good enough that day.
Also when people got a dud in 1955 they didn't mail letters to everyone in the world that owns the same guns telling them about how they got screwed. That is exactly what happens now with this new fangeled internet.
Smith still makes good guns and even the ones that have problems will outshoot all those new double actions colt is making.

 

[JSR III]

Merry Christmas everyone. Sit back, mix a little rum in your eggnog, put your feet up and relax. My neighbors wife just found out she has breast cancer again and may need another operation.

 

[turbo38gn]

Turbo,
If your first post was worded like your last, there would not be a problem. Your implication was clear. You accused BH of damaging his new revolver himself. I stand by my original post. Your response is what I would expect to see on Sigforum. Is there any reason we cannot be respecful of each other on this forum? I don't see why not. Dean

Hi 41.... sounds like a presidential nickname... Merry Christmas to you this fine morning and to all that are hanging here waiting for Christmas dinner..

I just want to add one more thing... not wanting to continue this thread, but..... I do have to make clear my initial, original assessment of this situation was also first and foremost based on the 2 pictures, for me, seeing is believing. If you haven't looked closely at the 2 pics, do so... I have been a auto tech for a loooong time, lots and lots of experience with metals in my area.... I saw the chrome appearing outside surface, but the second picture clearly appears to be a break after the chrome, not at all chromed over, where the piece was broken off. That's all, very obvious to me. The rest of my statement was based on OP's tone, I tend to respond in like fashion... That piece could very well have been broken at anytime by anyone that handled or originally assembled it.. not before it was chromed..

OK, off to church, and enjoying family and food..hope you all do the same.. I hear my wife turning up the Christmas tunes..... that's the cue..

 

[41 fan]

Turbo,
Merry Christmas to you and yours.
I can't tell if the part was chrome plated or just polished. It appears that the ball end that is engaged by the rebound slide has broken off at the indentation. I don't know why it made it past QQ.
I'm not sure you understand my point. I see by the date you joined you have not been a member very long. This forum is generally a very calm and respectful forum. Making accusations that reflect on a fellow members competency is rude and disrespecful. Not to tell you what to do, but, when I type out a post I reread it several times to make sure I come across in a civil manner and get my point across.
In case you are wondering about my reference to Sigforum, the members there use quite a bit of profane language and have a lack of respect for fellow members. I haven't posted there in quite some time. The last time i entered into a discussion with another member I was challanged to a duel. That drunken member was given the boot shortly thereafter when he verbally attacked the moderater/owner.
Bottm line is, please, let's be respectful of our fellow members and give them the benefit of the doubt. Merry Christmas to all. Dean

 

[mag318]

There is a good reason that sites like Gunboker and Auction Arms continue to do well, selling older S&Ws that were built by craftsmen. I recently bought a small collection of 30/40 year old Smiths that were all NIB. What a difference between what they produced then and now.

 

[cballman]

As I was reading these posts I just had to comment on such matters. We as Americans now want a product that is cheap in price but great in quality. Over the years the American companies have given us what we asked for. Now before everyone starts bashing me STOP, SIT BACK and LOOK at your attitude at work, Is it Always the greatest? Now remember when you call the customer services lines for any company that the way you act on your end of the phone will always meet with the same reaction on the other end. I understand Bountyhunters problem. He spent his hard earned money on a product that was inferior. I believe that when he paid for that product he was entitled to a better quality than he got. I would be a bit upset myself like most others would. So Lets stop and think how you would feel if your were spending your hard earned money and something your purchased was broke. Just remember to put yourself hi the other persons shoes before you make comments that could cause harm to someone else.

 

[Jswiney9]

As I was reading these posts I just had to comment on such matters. We as Americans now want a product that is cheap in price but great in quality. Over the years the American companies have given us what we asked for. Now before everyone starts bashing me STOP, SIT BACK and LOOK at your attitude at work, Is it Always the greatest? Now remember when you call the customer services lines for any company that the way you act on your end of the phone will always meet with the same reaction on the other end. I understand Bountyhunters problem. He spent his hard earned money on a product that was inferior. I believe that when he paid for that product he was entitled to a better quality than he got. I would be a bit upset myself like most others would. So Lets stop and think how you would feel if your were spending your hard earned money and something your purchased was broke. Just remember to put yourself hi the other persons shoes before you make comments that could cause harm to someone else.

this was my point exactly, its easy to sit back and say "well it was a S&W so it must have been perfect, you broke it, should be happy that they will fix it.... ETC ETC." Sometimes paying 1200 dollars for something that is broken then having to send it back just isnt good enough, even if they do fix it for free. If i went to a car lot and bought something, got it home and realized there was a radiator leak or something i would be pissed. So easy for us today to sit back and say "well thats good enough, theyll fix it for you" when in reality its not, we have gotten too lazy and expect LESS..... thats not a good thing.

 

[turbo38gn]

this was my point exactly, its easy to sit back and say "well it was a S&W so it must have been perfect, you broke it, should be happy that they will fix it.... ETC ETC." Sometimes paying 1200 dollars for something that is broken then having to send it back just isnt good enough, even if they do fix it for free. If i went to a car lot and bought something, got it home and realized there was a radiator leak or something i would be pissed. So easy for us today to sit back and say "well thats good enough, theyll fix it for you" when in reality its not, we have gotten too lazy and expect LESS..... thats not a good thing.

It's too bad a few here have twisted a few posts away from what was said. I don't believe anyone said this was ok, I know I did not. What was said is "sh-t happens" this isn't the end of the world, S&W will fix it, in a nutshell. As for the possibility of the piece being broken in a manner different than the OP posted, that is based on his statement and looking at the pictures. Again, not sure what a few here are looking at, but the picture I look at appears to be a freshly broken part.. period. I base my statement on what I see with my own eyes and what I experience personally, not what I "heard" second hand or may not have an experienced eye to fully understand a picture. Pretty simple, not here to cause trouble, not here to pick on some guy I have never met... But when I read in a public forum what OP posted with a venomous attack on a good company and other members here... like I said before , I respond with like firepower. Is that hard to understand? But it is ok for a guy to call people he does not know, including employees of S&W, members here morons, fools, idiots and jerks... hmmm, ok, but I'm the disrespectful one.. because he has 1300 plus posts and I only have 50 and have not been a member long enough to share. Very nice, it's ok though, I have reread this thread multiple times and taken the time to reread my responses and feel fine with my content. Looks like I'm the rookie here and haven't earned any respect...

The bottom line is I would not have posted in this thread had it not been for the nasty attitude of the OP.. not only toward S&W but toward others here. Venting is one think, this went way beyond venting.

 

[shawn mccarver]

No offense, but that's a giant crock. The measure of quality is what they deliver. If you ordered a new Lexus and it showed up with body damage, and internal engine problems and the guy said:

"Don't worry...... the body shop will fix that and we'll tear the engine down and see if we can fix it..."

Are you going to be singing their praises? Hell, no. ?

I am sorry to say, sir, that the above is a most unfair comparison. Your original post said:

"I really don't flipping believe it. I just took possession of my new 627 (5") gun from the dealer. BRAND NEW IN BOX. I take it apart to do the initial cleaning and inspection and here is what I find: the trigger strut is broken on the "ball end" (see photo).

What's weird is the DA pull seemed OK, not great but OK before coming apart."

Thus, we are talking about a trigger strut, and even you, as an experienced, though not professional and not licensed "gunsmith" thought the DA trigger pull seemed OK.

In all fairness, if your new revolver had been delivered with a bent barrel and a too-short firing pin so you did not get 100 percent firing, that would be the equivalent of body damage and internal engine problems on a brand new car.

Instead, your revolver was delivered with a trigger strut with the ball end sheared off, which did not prevent the revolver from working, and which did not even cause you much concern over the trigger pull ("it seemed OK").

Thus, the problem you experienced was more akin to having a small part a little out of spec on your brand new car, not preventing it from being driven, but certainly something the dealer would gladly fix under warranty. It certainly was not the same as your brand new car having body damage. And I would note that car companies do not allow warranty work to be done by sending out parts to home mechanics so they do not have to take their car in to the dealer.

Good luck getting your revolver fixed, but I do not believe this minor issue deserves this kind of anger and upset.