Unbelievable quality control fail - 3 for 3

[PatriotX]

Would any of the long term owners care to comment on the Lear Sigler change of ownership?

I hear there was some tooth gnashing then as well…

 

[Tom S.]

The companies aren't alone in the decline of their products. Consumers play a part as well. We vote every day with our wallets to buy a cheap product over a more expensive one, often with the mistaken assumption the cheap one is as good as the pricier counterpart. If this wasn't true, Harbor Freight never would have caught on. This forces manufacturers to seek ways to compete with the cheaper product and the outcome is predictable. So whole corporate greed has certainly played a role in the decline of quality, so too has consumer greed.

There are brands of revolvers out there that excel in quality, but so too does their price.

 

[Model19man]

IMHO if wanting a S&W model - BUY VINTAGE!

This is good advice.

 

[GnarlsR2]

Yup. Unfortunately THIS is how it works in Fortune 500 companies these days.

There are only 2 ways to increase profit in a sales-driven company…. Increase revenue or reduce cost.

Increased revenue requires customer retention and that requires customer loyalty.

It isn’t a secret that outstanding Customer Service is critical for customer retention and loyalty. With today’s social media, poor quality and poor customer service can be instantly spread to millions of people.

Tracking your customer’s experience is critical to know what the level of satisfaction you are providing.

I’m curious if Smith & Wesson even knows what a CSAT or NPS score is?

 

[chief38]

This is one of my pet peeves, Chinese knives, and the companies like Smith and Wesson that brand them with their storied name. The NY State upper central region is or was home to Olean, Ka-bar, Camillus and Schrade. Schrade went out of business in their 100th year. Why?pressure from Chinese knives.

Now they are made in China with the Schrade name. The NRA passes around Chinese junk for membership renewal. Hell, we even give our Navy Seals Cold Steel Taiwan made knives. What is wrong with that picture? Can't we mandate American made for our troops? We did it with flags over military bases.

I have 2 things that I mandate for myself as having to be American made. They are knives and shoes

I don't buy Buck either. I do not think they take and hold an edge well. As for fixed blade knives, I find it very hard to get past a Ka-Bar USN standard issue fighting knife. Although I do throw out the junk Mexican sheath, and replace it with a hand made American sheath.

Rant over, we now return you to S&W PC quality control.

IMHO one of the main reasons the NYS knife makers have mostly closed up shop is because they did not change with the modern market! Many of them produced very good knives at reasonable prices but they were not offering the modern designs the newer generations wanted. They were not looking for traditional folding knives like Stockman's, Jack Knives, Arkansas Toothpicks, with 2 or 3 blades. They were also not really looking for traditional fixed blade Sheath Knives. While their quality and history was there, the younger generation wanted knives like Spyderco, Benchmade Kershaw, etc. that flip open with the flick of your thumb and clip to the inside of your pocket. The NYS and many traditional manufacturers did not offer them and they lost a big piece of the market.

The NRA, S&W, etc. are not really interested in giving members and customers good quality knives, they are just interested in a "come-on" to get people to join and re-up. By the time you get the knife your check has long cleared and they don't really give a hoot! American made knives are more expensive and all these company's and organizations are interested in is making the most amount of profit as fast they can so the lion's share of that "promo" business goes overseas.

Unfortunately for American's the global marketplace has taken over formerly domestic produced goods and many American company's have gone under. There are MANY MANY times I want to buy an American made tool, product or whatever and there are actually NONE made in America anymore! Usually I will seek out new/old stock or excellent used American made before I resort to caving in and buying Chinese goods.Not everyone is willing, able and has the patience to do so.

I can not tell you how many times I have been called lots of names for buying high quality American made stuff rather than buying Chinese goods at 1/4 the price. Two weeks ago we spent over $400 for a set of really high quality, 100% USA made stainless flatware service for 12. There have been a few friends and neighbors that have told me I was a fool for doing that instead of buying a Chinese set at Costco for $49.99. They simply don't get it and I understand that as most people don't.

All too often manufacturing company's in business for many decades often loose sight of change, of making a newer product to suit the current market trends, and fail to diversify their product line until it's too late. American company's need to innovate, NOT imitate! These are just some of the reasons but certainly not all.

 

[TAROMAN]

Benchmade made in Oregon.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I buy very few new firearms these days and a significant number of not new firearms. That is part of the reason.

I'm just buying used these days from friends or a dealer if I can inspect the firearm. The last new S&W I purchased was a 625-8 about 15 years ago. I wasn't real happy with that one but I still have it. Mostly because 625's are out of production.

I think S&W, Taurus and Ruger are basically on the same footing these days. The customer is the QC.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

1985 I'm sent to the Sig armourers school where I first got to fondle a P210. It was my dream gun for many years. In retirement I finally bought a P210A. It shot like a dream, accurate with an exceptional trigger. Until around the 40th. round. The recoil guide blew apart. I will say Sig had a new recoil assembly in my mailbox in two days.

After that I bought a Kimber K6s 3" DAO. The cylinder would jam up at least once every six rounds. Sent it back and it was returned in a week, perfect condition, a shooter.

The only recent Hillary hole Smith I have is a 317 that works fine and it gets above normal use. A keeper. There are three models that I'm interested in. A 351C, 432 UC Ti. and the new model 10 no hole. None of my local dealers have these in stock and I will not order any. I want a no obligation inspection. While S&W hasn't screwed me I don't want to go through the ship and return thing again.

I've been carrying Smiths on and off duty, then retired for 52 years. I find these reports very disappointing. Yet there's still the pull of a couple more. I've never had a bad Smith.

 

[BluedRevolver]

I'm just buying used these days from friends or a dealer if I can inspect the firearm. The last new S&W I purchased was a 625-8 about 15 years ago. I wasn't real happy with that one but I still have it. Mostly because 625's are out of production.

I think S&W, Taurus and Ruger are basically on the same footing these days. The customer is the QC.

While Ruger certainly has their QC issues with revolvers, I think they're in a better position than Smith regarding it. Their DA revolvers were designed from the get-go for modern mass production methods (cast parts that are large and durable to allow for casting, etc). Smith's revolvers are essentially 1890s designs to be hand-built and hand-fit, modified and re-engineered for modern mass production methods.

The new Colt DA revolvers seem to be doing a little better at it from my casual observation, though they should probably be using a little more power in their mainspring perhaps.

 

[Autonomous]

You make a good point about guns designed for the manufacturing methods of their day. The old Colt Python, as I understand it, was complicated and required a lot of manufacturing steps. It could no longer compete.
Look at the 1911 vs. a modern pistol with stamped and injection molded components.

 

[BluedRevolver]

Ruger designs lend themselves better to modern mass production methods, but QC is still a variable.

Hell, my newest GP100 is having timing issues. While I still maintain that Ruger's QC issues aren't as bad as Smith's (in recent history at least), they still have them too.

I will end up sending it back to Ruger. Ideally, they would replace it with a new one. Once a gun proves to be defective, I don't trust it and will still never trust it even once it comes back from warranty work. A couple of years ago I bought one of the 7-shot .357 GP100s, it had issues and Ruger agreed to my request of outright replacing it with a new 6 shot one. I hope they will replace this one with one that is good to go on the first try. Otherwise once I get this one fixed I will sell it at a loss with full disclosure.

Life's too short for guns you can't trust your life to. To me they're not even worth the money the ammo costs to run through it.

 

[Shibadog]

I'm not sure what to make of this.

About 8 months ago, I purchased a new 629 competitor performance center. The dovetail front sight got loose after the first 50 rounds. Sent it in under warranty. Waited 8 weeks to get it back. They put the front sight on crooked. I sent it in again, and waited another 8 weeks. It seems like it's fixed now.

About 3 weeks ago, I purchased a new 627 2 5/8" barrel performance center. The dovetail front sight got loose after the first 50 rounds. I just received an email today saying they are sending it back to me. I found out they replaced the barrel and the crane. The customer service lady didn't know the details as to why that was done.

Two days ago, I purchased a new model 19 carry comp 2.5" barrel performance center. This time, the front sight is pinned, so I found solace in knowing the front sight should be fine. I went to the range just 30 minutes ago to shoot it for the first time. It wouldn't fire. I got 6 light primer strikes on tried and dependable ammo. Packed up, went home, and I'm now writing you all. I may call the local gun shop I purchased this from and see if I can return it or get store credit. I don't know if I want to deal with getting this gun fixed too. Any advice on my options?

What do you all think? My wife thinks I'm crazy for keep purchasing their guns. Is she right?

Edit: 1/29/2025. I received my 627 back today from having its front sight repaired. Front sight is straight, but now half of the rear sight has been severely bent out of shape. It looks like they dropped it on the rear sight if I had to guess.

Also, thank you for all the comments. I’m glad to have joined this forum.

Sounds like the wife is right. This is ludicrous. If these “premium” pieces are failing what would a more plebeian model do. I think I’d call S&W and try to get through to the top dog-something is Seriously wrong.

 

[rwsmith]

I wouldn't know about that......

... as I've never bought a new revolver. (hint hint)

 

[M1A4ME]

It's not new.

My S&W revolvers are all from the early to mid 80s.

My brand new 4" M29 stripped out the threads in that little T nut the rear sight elevation screw threads into the first weekend I bought it. We had right at 650 round through it when the round went high off the target. Dealer didn't have the part. I didn't want to leave it there or send it back. Found the part in a little hole in the wall gun shop down on the river and fixed it myself.

Bought a really nice looking 6" 586 and could only get about a box of ammo through it before it would start hanging up as I cocked it. Got to doing some reading here and there and found the gap between the cylinder and barrel was way too tight. Fixed that one myself, too. Very carefully filed the back of the barrel to open the gap up to the low end of the spec (nope don't remember the measurements as that was in 1981 or 82) and it was just an awesome shooting revolver every after that.

My department was issued new 4" 686's in 1984 and almost half of them had to go back to a repair center in OH to have the firing pin nose bushing replaced. The one I bought (borrowed by my dad) had the same issue and had to go back, too.

Everybody makes "bad" stuff at some point. Somehow we have the ability to find stuff the factory testing misses.

 

[Tom S.]

Everybody makes "bad" stuff at some point. Somehow we have the ability to find stuff the factory testing misses.

Making bad stuff is only half the equation though. The other half is fixing it the first time and returning it in a timely fashion and lately, S&W has been having problems with this half of the equation as well.

 

[mikeruns]

I am amazed at the amount of bad new purchase S&W revolvers these days and the multiple send backs often resulting in further customer dissatisfaction. I have personally purchased a new 642 a few years ago without a lock that does great, and a new model 29 mtn gun with internal lock back in 2012 which I think was a Talo special…ser#CRYZ29**….I will say that model 29 is maybe the tightest-most wonderfully finished and accurate revolvers of my 20 to 30 other vintage 1920 to 1970-ish S&Ws’. As many bad posts of horrible experiences I read here, I would just recommend everyone to buy Rugers and Colts and only vintage pre-90-ish Smiths. Buy a Taurus if you like-I won’t even consider one because I am that unapologetic snob. I have also had good luck with Glock and HK, Beretta and a few Cimarron Peacemaker reproduction revolvers too. People, let your spending do your talking to Smith and Wesson and buy other brands. Maybe then they will pull their heads out of theirs coo-roos.

 

[Nomadmax]

But, but, they got rid of the internal lock....

Because it was determined to be redundant system. What they're producing now doesn't need a lock to keep it from firing.

 

[Roscoe P]

I recently purchased a 632 UC and am completely satisfied with it. I think the move from Mass to Tenn may have produced some temporary production and QC issues that will eventually be worked out. I prefer to give S&W the benefit of a doubt.

 

[BluedRevolver]

I recently purchased a 632 UC and am completely satisfied with it. I think the move from Mass to Tenn may have produced some temporary production and QC issues that will eventually be worked out. I prefer to give S&W the benefit of a doubt.

Are all revolvers produced in TN now? I assumed revolver production stayed back in MA.

Edit: After getting screwed by timing issues with the new GP100 I bought, I'm looking at picking up an unfired Ruger Security Six as a go-to defensive revolver. If I do, I will likely buy a few more Sixes and spare parts to keep them all going.

Tomorrow I go to pick up my new no-lock S&W Model 19. We shall see if it even passes the initial inspection. If it does, I won't know till next Saturday whether it actually works or not.