unburnt 2400 in 357 mag

[duckloads]

I'm getting unburnt 2400 powder in my 357 mag loads. 158gr hardcast, CCI SP, 13.3 gr 2400. it is to the point where it is causing sticky extraction. The new rounds slip in and over fine granuals and then stick when fired.

I also use 2400 in my 460 mag loads, and it burns clean.

Any suggestions? Tighter crimp?

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

According to Aliants website, your load is well below max., and that is partailly contributing to your problem. They list 14.8 grains with a Speer Gold Dot jacketed bullet. I would up my load in increments to that level and see what happens. It's been my experience with 2400, that if you get too much below max, you start having the problem you are having. You may also need to tighten your crimp. That creates a good bullet pull, and more uniform ignition of your powder, which in turn helps burn it more cleanly.

BTW, I doubt that you are getting "unburned" powder, but reather partially burned powder. If you look at the particles, I'll bet they are sort of yellow/greenish in color. That is because they didn't completely burn. Unburned 2400 will still be blackish/gray in color.

 

[NKJ nut]

Gun 4 fun is right. The load is too light to work efficiently.

I have used 15 grains in mine since forever. I get a clean burn.

 

[duckloads]

Thanks gentlemen, More power, you say.

I'll give a few a try.

 

[n4zov]

You may also need to tighten your crimp. That creates a good bullet pull, and more uniform ignition of your powder, which in turn helps burn it more cleanly.

+1 on that recommendation. You may also find that your expander is large enough that it expands the case mouth to the point that you don't have enough bullet tension regardless of the amount of crimp you apply. If that is the case, measure the diameter of your expander and order one that is .001- .002 smaller. A smaller expander will create more friction between the case and bullet.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

+1 on both of the posts above.

I have reduced the size of my expander balls from .001-.002" under to .004"-.005" under and am having great success with that. Accuracy seems to have improved slightly, and powder is definately burning cleaner. I haven't done any before and after testing with the same loads, so I can't say for sure about ES getting lower, but I would bet on it. I don't get any unsightly buldge from that reduction either.

I love Handloader, and Brian Pearce's articles in particular.


By the time I typed this, one of the posts that was here and referenced having an expander ball .004"-.005" under nominal bullet diameter was deleted.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Ditto to all the above.A heavy roll crimp is important but it can't replace the lack of a tight case/bullet fit.Make sure of that detail.Also,2400 seems to perform better when the volume as well as the pressure is not lowered too much.I use 2400 in loads that are warm but not quite max.Even though it's functional,13.3 sounds a little light to me.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I swim against the current on only one issue with 2400. I use magnum primers. I know that folks say you don't need them, and even "The Greats" didn't BUT, they may not have had a chronograph to run all of their loads over either. Since I do, I like my numbers to be acceptable to ME. I stay down from maximum loads with all of my 2400 and magnum primer combinations and at the upper end of the data things get real clean.

The rest of the information in the above posts is excellent advice as well!

 

[NKJ nut]

Some expanders are way too large. If this is the case ignition will be poor simply because the case doesn't have much of a grip on the bullet. A good firm crimp is important especially on high end loads but it can't make up for the case being too large for the bullet.

 

[LazarusLong]

2400 seems to be one of those powders that only works "right" in near max loads. My 2400 .38-44 loads actually are pretty clean

 

[johngalt]

I've experimented with 160 gr hard cast bullets, going from 12.0 to 15.0 gr of 2400, standard primer. I've found 2400 to be clean, no unburnt powder through the entire range and MUCH cleaner than Unique.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've found 2400 like most powders will burn much cleaner and more completely when the pressures are up near the top of the charge range. This holds especially true with flake powders more so than with ball powders.

I agree, up the powder charge and make sure you use a firm crimp, you will probably see a big improvement. Keep us posted...

 

[Steve C]

For a cast load your charge is quite sufficient and should be running around 1,250 fps or so from a 4" revolver.

If you keep your muzzle up when exctracting cases you won't have much if any powder residu in you cylinders. A good crimp into to crimping groove also helps with less residue.

I use 13.0grs of 2400 with 158gr LSWC lit by a standard pistol primer and the only powder residue I ever see is a little in the barrel.

 

[mkk41]

2400 is a slow burning rate powder. Much like H-110/W-296. It works best with a slightly compressed load , heavy roll crimp , hot primer and a long barrel.

 

[S.B.]

It's not unburnt powder but, ash from the powder burning. Get in touch with Aliant.
Steve

 

[GF1]

More powder is the right fix. 2400 is easy to ignite, doesn't require the big crimps of some of the gee whiz ball powders, but it doesn't hurt either. It is great powder.

 

[duckloads]

My original loads in this topic were 13.3 gr of 2400. After shooting, I had to literally dump several particles of unburnt / partially burnt powder out of my brass before putting it back in the box.

I just loaded a bunch with 14.8 gr, raising the load by 1.5 gr. I hope to get to the range this (real freaking hot) afternoon.

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[duckloads]

I give up on the 2400

The 2400 and 158 gr swc loads just isn't working for me. I shot several cylinders full of the 14.8 gr loads. They DID burn much cleaner, but I had to drive the cases out of the cylinder. This can't be safe. Some of the cases would not even fit back into the cylinder after everything cooled off. AND these were the worst accurate loads i've tried. there was no use shooting them past 25 yards.

I started with a CLEAN revolver, so no issues there. I compared the 2400 loads with 6.0 gr Unique loads. The uniques loads were still a tad sticky, but they ejected with little effort. At 25 yards the Unique loads gave about 3" groups and the 2400 loads gave about 5" groups. They were awfull.

Unless there are other ideas, I'll be looking for a different powder for the 158gr swc bullets. I haven't tried jacketed bullets in the gun yet. Perhaps it's time.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

I stopped using 2400 powder many years ago for all the reasons you describe. For my use, H-110 and 296 worked out better. My focus was on jacketed, not cast, bullets. Good luck.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

The 2400 and 158 gr swc loads just isn't working for me. I shot several cylinders full of the 14.8 gr loads. They DID burn much cleaner, but I had to drive the cases out of the cylinder. This can't be safe. Some of the cases would not even fit back into the cylinder after everything cooled off. AND these were the worst accurate loads i've tried. there was no use shooting them past 25 yards.

I started with a CLEAN revolver, so no issues there. I compared the 2400 loads with 6.0 gr Unique loads. The uniques loads were still a tad sticky, but they ejected with little effort. At 25 yards the Unique loads gave about 3" groups and the 2400 loads gave about 5" groups. They were awfull.

Unless there are other ideas, I'll be looking for a different powder for the 158gr swc bullets. I haven't tried jacketed bullets in the gun yet. Perhaps it's time.

What gun did you use? Magnum primers? My standard load is 14.5 grains with a TVB 158 LSWC and accuracy is terrific. Even 15 grains shoots very well and extracts fine from my Model 27, though the extra 1/2 grain isn't worth the return, to me.