Unfired? How would you really know, since…

[beagleye]

I like other phrases like "no obvious signs of wear or usage".

 

[murphydog]

To summarize:

For S & W revolvers specifically, there are essentially no “unfired” guns.

A gun that has every other charge hole dirty is likely unfired since factory testing.

There is no way to tell if a perfectly clean gun has been fired 3 or a few dozen rounds.

A too clean gun is suspicious unless the seller has owned it from purchase, and even then maybe not. Caveat emptor.

 

[22hipower]

To summarize:

For S & W revolvers specifically, there are essentially no “unfired” guns.

A gun that has every other charge hole dirty is likely unfired since factory testing.

There is no way to tell if a perfectly clean gun has been fired 3 or a few dozen rounds.

A too clean gun is suspicious unless the seller has owned it from purchase, and even then maybe not. Caveat emptor.

All that and even if you find one that has three charge holes showing having been fired. Don't immediately jump to the conclusion that is hasn't been fired more since leaving the factory.

Some years ago I looked at a nickel 27-2 and what caught my eye was that it was priced at about double the then current market price. I asked why and was told "it hasn't been fired since leaving the factory, look at the three burn holes." I did, and the burn rings were there along with a lot of tiny scratches on the front of the cylinder indicating someone had worked hard to clean it, and then fired it three more times. There was no box. There are exceptions to everything, but a gun in my experience that doesn't have its box and papers with it, isn't likely to be "unfired since leaving the factory."

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Bald1]

Wonder how much ammo the factory went through
any given year.
Did they fire full loads or just bust a primer ?

Did the factory fire 125gr rounds in the k frame 357s

 

[Retired W4]

A friend traded in a 20ga Citori at a shop that I considered a friend.
The gun had a blonde stock with an English grip. Kind of unusual.
I went to the shop and asked about it.
The shop owner told me it was unfired.
I knew he was lying because I’d been with my friend when he fired it.

The 20 ga. Citori with English straight stock (2nd from top) has been fired thousands of times. It's hard to tell by just looking at it. It dropped a lot of bob whites. I know because my former boss gave it to me, along with the rest of the brood. All well cared for, high round count guns.

 

[paplinker]

Nickel Model 58 unfired outside the factory. Telltale carbon ring on every other chamber.

How would anyone know if someone just loaded those three chambers every time a gun went to the range

 

[Drm50]

I recently bought a Mint unfired revolver in presentation case. Bought through major auction outfit. Got it and paid transfer. Looked mint and have no doubt it was unfired, except factory. Couple days later took out of case to wipe of and it was locked up tight as a drum. I took grips off and guts were solid gob of rust. Gave it shot of gun cleaner with nozel up into frame and rust dripped out of trigger. It went back and got my money back. I was aggravated they wouldn’t compensate for transfer fee. I will not deal with them again.

 

[cracker57]

All range brass is once fired, just saying.....

 

[rct269]

I recently bought a Mint unfired revolver in presentation case. Bought through major auction outfit. Got it and paid transfer. Looked mint and have no doubt it was unfired, except factory. Couple days later took out of case to wipe of and it was locked up tight as a drum. I took grips off and guts were solid gob of rust. Gave it shot of gun cleaner with nozel up into frame and rust dripped out of trigger. It went back and got my money back. I was aggravated they wouldn’t compensate for transfer fee. I will not deal with them again.

"Too soon we get old, and too late we get smart!"

Auction houses are in business to make money by selling items consigned to them by the owners (alleged or otherwise). That's their thing! Some of them (SOME of them), not many---but some actually know about the stuff they're selling----even have folks on staff to examine and describe the items. Rock Island is one such concern. They didn't used to be, but word got out that they played fast and loose----and that word was hurting their business. That little phrase up above pretty well describes their situation, and they got some smart folks to help them fix that situation-----and it proved to be worth their while.

Do even the good guys screw the pooch now and again? Yep! That's why your best bet is to go look before you leap----and if what you're after is a high dollar item, you damn well better do just that. I did it---just once---drove 1500 miles round trip to see for myself---and saw---and didn't leap----because I saw.

This situation got so bad I just stopped buying from auction houses. Then I sat and stared, and came to the realization almost ALL of my special stuff came from a handful of collectible dealers-----and from that day on that's where I got my goodies---with NO exceptions!!

And THAT worked like a charm!! What worked even better was to tell these folks what I was after, and then sit and wait for the phone to ring---and it rang---and I was a happy camper!! It's kind of like having a personal shopper!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Model29-26.5]

There are still a few folks missing the point here.
How would you know if it has or has not been fired outside the factory? Even once? If it has been well cleaned.
How can you know? Unless you are the first owner and never fired it.

 

[djohns6]

There are still a few folks missing the point here.
How would you know if it has or has not been fired outside the factory? Even once? If it has been well cleaned.
How can you know? Unless you are the first owner and never fired it.

Why do people obsess over it ? Fired at the factory or not . Fired by the previous owner , or not . Who cares ? If you can't prove it then it shouldn't be an issue . It is what it is .

 

[THE PILGRIM]

A while back a Bud and I bought a small collection.
Got about a dozen 1911s.
In the boxes, with papers.
The Lady Seller got them from her deceased Father.
Away we go to the Gallup Gunshow.
Must have been asked a thousand has this gun been fired?
We reply, we don’t know!
Buy or don’t buy based on your own inspection!
Neatest gun? Probably the Nickel 38 Super.

 

[cracker57]

There are still a few folks missing the point here.
How would you know if it has or has not been fired outside the factory? Even once? If it has been well cleaned.
How can you know? Unless you are the first owner and never fired it.

It might be you missing the point here, from what I have read in this thread

ONE CAN'T

if someone says I can tell, buy two guns shoot one of them once, clean the snot out of it hand them both the guns and see if they are right, but then again they would have a 50/50 chance so buy ten guns and try it.

 

[rct269]

There are still a few folks missing the point here.
How would you know if it has or has not been fired outside the factory? Even once? If it has been well cleaned.
How can you know? Unless you are the first owner and never fired it.

If I'd have been the one who cleaned it, you wouldn't know!

Now that goes for blue guns-----and one lone nickel---I don't know diddly about the later stainless guns. I suspect a bead blasted finish could not be so cleaned--except by blasting it all over again---and that would do the trick!

Ralph Tremaine