Unfluted cylinders

[colt_saa]

I do not recall ever seeing a J Frame with an unfluted cylinder. I do not believe any have ever been made.

I can recall at least 4 different runs of unfluted J-frames. There were two different runs of 38 special, 1 7/8" model 60s (I have a new, unfitted cylinder for these). There was a 2 1/8" 357 Magnum model 60.

There were 357 Magnum 640s with unfluted cylinders
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/204807-j-frame-unfluted-cylinder.html

There was a 3" 357 magnum model 649. However this was not a factory offering.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/182958-what-worth.html

I know I have not seen every variation of J-frame, so there are probably others that I have not seen or heard of.

 

[jughed440]

so...if i have an unfluted cylinder on a 627PC and wish to change it to a fluted cylinder, would it be as easy as ordering the fluted cylinder form PC and simply swapping it in place of the original?? Or is there more to it?

 

[colt_saa]

I'm with Gunsnwater above. To each his own.
I have some of both and wouldn't if I didn't like both.

I like them as well. If folks do not like them they do not have to buy them.

Some folks like green cars, others do not so they buy blue or red or white, etc.

This is why we have choices.

 

[BJoe]

Probably because the guns he builds are not for speed!

I guess this factor would only apply to those that shoot for competition.

"SPEED" would certainly apply to the 30 mm Vulcan cannon on the Warthog, or the 20 mm Gatling Phalanx, but I really doubt the human hand would notice a difference.

 

[S.B.]

Point of order, please?
Steve

 

[OldGoat]

Boxers vs. Briefs? Ford vs. Chevy? Blondes vs. Brunettes? So many guns, so little money and time. Keep smiling. Regards, Ed

 

[DR505]

Why would the un-fluted cylinders be good for hunting?

Because the Classic Hunters come with unfluted cylinders, and I like the looks! For these revolvers, I have large holster rigs, so weight is not a problem. If I'm hunting with one, I have no rifle, so I get a weight reduction bonus. I don't shoot them "fast," so am not worried about wear and tear. And, as mentioned, recoil is tamed a touch. When you have a long barrel and full-underlug, it absorbs recoil pretty well.

For CC, I prefer less weight as they are in concealment holsters, underneath outerwear.

 

[DR505]

"SPEED" would certainly apply to the 30 mm Vulcan cannon on the Warthog, or the 20 mm Gatling Phalanx, but I really doubt the human hand would notice a difference.

I'm guessing he is referring to Single Action revolvers that Mr. Bowen crafts so well.

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

Many posts talk about the added weight of a non-fluted vs fluted cylinder.
Just how much more does a non-fluted cylinder weigh than a fluted one?
Do we talk about the added weight when shooting a 185 grain bullet vs a 155 grain bullet, plus the additional powder on that heavier bullet?

And are there any actual studies on how much "faster" a fluted cylinder can be fired vs a non-fluted cylinder, or how much more "damage" it causes to the rest of the gun?

Show me the evidence where the non-fluted is worse than the fluted one!!

My 629-2 and two 610's have non-fluted cylinders and I like the way they look.

I say to each his own.

 

[colt_saa]

Many posts talk about the added weight of a non-fluted vs fluted cylinder.
Just how much more does a non-fluted cylinder weigh than a fluted one?
Do we talk about the added weight when shooting a 185 grain bullet vs a 155 grain bullet, plus the additional powder on that heavier bullet?

And are there any actual studies on how much "faster" a fluted cylinder can be fired vs a non-fluted cylinder, or how much more "damage" it causes to the rest of the gun?

Show me the evidence where the non-fluted is worse than the fluted one!!

My 629-2 and two 610's have non-fluted cylinders and I like the way they look.

I say to each his own.

There is one incident that does show added wear. When the 1st stainless 357 magnum N-frame was introduced in 1989(product code 101024) the stop notches were being peened fairly quickly. Only 278 of the initial engineering release were produced. The bolts were significantly enlarged and the stop notches milled accordingly. This change created the 627-0.

It took the weight of an unfluted N-frame cylinder to show problems. Additionally it needed the mass created by the smaller 357 Magnum chambering. Unfluted cylinders had already appeared in the 44 Magnum a few years earlier.

Today, all N-frames have the larger bolts and stop notches. I have never heard of a problem since.

An unfluted J-frame will probably never exhibit significantly different wear vs. a fluted cylinder over a shooters lifetime.

 

[DR505]

My 629-2 and two 610's have non-fluted cylinders and I like the way they look.

I say to each his own.

I like them too! 657-2, 627-0, 686-3

 

[suckersrus]

I do not recall ever seeing a J Frame with an unfluted cylinder. I do not believe any have ever been made.

640-1 PC 357mag Pre-lock Magnaport

 

[BJoe]

I like them too! 657-2, 627-0, 686-3

Me to.

 

[Nick B]

There is one incident that does show added wear. When the 1st stainless 357 magnum N-frame was introduced in 1989(product code 101024) the stop notches were being peened fairly quickly. Only 278 of the initial engineering release were produced. The bolts were significantly enlarged and the stop notches milled accordingly. This change created the 627-0.

It took the weight of an unfluted N-frame cylinder to show problems. Additionally it needed the mass created by the smaller 357 Magnum chambering. Unfluted cylinders had already appeared in the 44 Magnum a few years earlier.

Today, all N-frames have the larger bolts and stop notches. I have never heard of a problem since.

An unfluted J-frame will probably never exhibit significantly different wear vs. a fluted cylinder over a shooters lifetime.

I have a 627-0 . Are you saying that it does have the upgraded bolt and stop notches ?

 

[colt_saa]

I have a 627-0 . Are you saying that it does have the upgraded bolt and stop notches ?

That is correct. The 627 was dropped after only 278 revolvers produce and a larger bolt and stop notch were the change from 627 to 627-0

 

[Macinaw]

On the TV show Shooting USA I saw Jerry M shooting a M&P 327 that was ported with an non- fluted cylinder.

Now, I think this whole issue is over analyzed!

 

[USAF385]

Cylinder weight.....

The extra weight of an unfluted cylinder causes extra wear...

Interesting. Got me wondering.

My fluted cylinder for my 686 (along with the ejector rod assembly) weighs in at 245 grams, or 8.64 oz.

The unfluted weighs in at 253 grams or 8.92 oz.

Not a lot. This got me thinking... Gee, the added weight of the rounds should be taken into consideration!

Lets try the fluted cylinder with some .357 mags (I believe 110gr):

11.71 oz

The unfluted with .38s (125gr)

11.68 oz

So.... For everyone concerned about the extra weight, I just illustrated that depending on the loads you use, the fluted can have more weight than the unfluted anyway.

Obviously, I'm not buying into the extra wear argument. The rounds you use will cause more of a weight variance than the cylinder being fluted or not.

 

[S.B.]

There is one incident that does show added wear. When the 1st stainless 357 magnum N-frame was introduced in 1989(product code 101024) the stop notches were being peened fairly quickly. Only 278 of the initial engineering release were produced. The bolts were significantly enlarged and the stop notches milled accordingly. This change created the 627-0.

It took the weight of an unfluted N-frame cylinder to show problems. Additionally it needed the mass created by the smaller 357 Magnum chambering. Unfluted cylinders had already appeared in the 44 Magnum a few years earlier.

Today, all N-frames have the larger bolts and stop notches. I have never heard of a problem since.

An unfluted J-frame will probably never exhibit significantly different wear vs. a fluted cylinder over a shooters lifetime.

aka, the Endurance package.
Steve

 

[Jaymo]

Small increases in static weight amount to large increases in flywheel effect. You don't have to make the cylinder twice as heavy to have an adverse effect.

I like unfluted cylinders on C&B revolvers and some cartridge revolvers, but mostly I prefer fluted cyls on my cartridge revolvers.

Besides, molded and boned CC holsters for CC revolvers fit fluted cylinders better than unfluted cylinders, because the flutes are molded in to the holster.

On something like a Ruger SBH Hunter, I like the unfluted cyl.
It really depends on the specific revolver. I like the look of the unfluted on a 640 or 649.
I don't think it looks as good on a blued revolver as on a stainless revolver.
Unless the blue revolver has a high polish blue.
Unfluted just seems to look better when shiny.
A polished stainless revolver with a polished unfluted cyl would look good to me.

 

[BJoe]

On the TV show Shooting USA I saw Jerry M shooting a M&P 327 that was ported with an non- fluted cylinder.

Now, I think this whole issue is over analyzed!

Exactly! Theory is exactly that THEORY. In practice it is something else. If the 'massive' extra weight indeed make a difference Jerry would probably know it.

 

[Engineer1911]

Butt ugly - a different view

Unfluted, unfinished, and unashamed

 

[rwsmith]

For some reason....

For some reason, they look more 'dangerous' to me. Unadorned yet effective.

 

[jaymoore]

"SPEED" would certainly apply to the 30 mm Vulcan cannon on the Warthog, or the 20 mm Gatling Phalanx, but I really doubt the human hand would notice a difference.

Jerry Miculek probably can run his revolvers almost as fast. Not minigun fast, but IIRC, somewhere in the range of 650-700rpm. (Rounds per minute, not revolutions...) As noted previously, he's been known to shoot both. Whether he's noticed any difference in handling or wear? Somebody ought to ask him.

Not me, I used to not like the unfluted cylinders, but have so many now in otherwise excellent revolvers that I quit worrying about it.

 

[Co Th G]

Probably because the guns he builds are not for speed!

I guess this factor would only apply to those that shoot for competition.

Regardless of what the internet "experts" say, JM uses an unfluted cylinder in the fastest of all his revos, his steel gun.

 

[rog8732]

Stick with your fluted cylinder on your Model 60. Unfluted cylinders on Smith & Wesson revolvers are just WRONG. I don't care what model you have, they are butt ugly on a modern revolver.

You state your opinion; as a verified FACT !... Any wiggle room ? Say; for instance on a Lew Horton 629 three inch with combat grips ?

If not, I guess I'll chunk mine in the back gully.

 

[suckersrus]

JM uses the extra weight of unfluted cylinders to slow him down. When he first started shooting he used to shoot so fast his stainless steel guns would catch on fire!

He tried wrapping a bungee cord around the revolver. This worked to some extent except when the bungee cord would catch fire and what was left of the cord would unwind at dangerous speeds. On three different occasions he lost sight in one eye. I have an old photo I made one day at the Sleepy Hollow Range the day he lost his third eye. You can plainly see the bungee still smoldering. I'll dig through my things and if I can locate the pic I will post it.
In the industry they do not call an unfluted cylinder an unfluted cylinder anymore - they say the revolver has been Mic-i-licked.

The first liar does not stand a chance.

 

[bigggbbruce]

Unfluted cylinders on Smith & Wesson revolvers are just WRONG. I don't care what model you have, they are butt ugly on a modern revolver.

You state your opinion; as a verified FACT !... Any wiggle room ? Say; for instance on a Lew Horton 629 three inch with combat grips ?

If not, I guess I'll chunk mine in the back gully.

Mines not worth looking at I guess.. 629 Stealth Hunter 1 of 260.

 

[scooter123]

Been shooting and collecting a LONG time and have never heard that.

Back around 2010 0r 2011 a fellow who shoots competitively posted is 4 inch model 610 for sale for 600 dollars. If you know about the 610 you would know that isn't a bargain basement price, it's a sub sub sub bargain basement price. One look at a closeup of the cylinder revealed the reason for that giveaway price, the stop notches were so badly peened that a new cylinder was needed.

Now, for some rather basic Physics that helps to explain that level of damage. In rotating bodies there is something called the Moment of Inertia which is basically the momentum of a rotating body. Two things act to increase the Moment of Inertia. One is an increase in the Diameter of that body. The other is an increase of the Mass of that body. The cylinder notches are positioned at the outside edge of the Diameter and this means that removing some Mass in this area will act to REDUCE the Moment of Inertia than removing the same amount of mass closer to the axis of rotation.

Now, I will admit that the lack of cylinder notches on the 4 inch 610 isn't the sole reason that cylinder was so beat up. The competition use that revolver was subjected to is likely to be the major cause of that damage. However basic Physics dictates that the lack of notches on the cylinder was a contributing factor even if it was a minor factor.

BTW, like many others I believe that leaving the cylinder notches off the cylinder not only makes it look unfinished, it's also a cost cutting measure that some people have bought into hook, line, and sinker.

 

[harleytech1]

I have both , I like them both...!

 

[Blackbarry]

Stick with your fluted cylinder on your Model 60. Unfluted cylinders on Smith & Wesson revolvers are just WRONG. I don't care what model you have, they are butt ugly on a modern revolver.

Butt ugly for sure!!