No to UBC. Government never does things in a small way. Look at any program the past sixty years the government has started and see if it has gotten smaller, or, how much money has been wasted, and how much it has helped people. There will always be that group of people like certain people in congress who want control over how others live because they think they know more than you and how better to live your life. Less freedom for you, more power for them. Now, it includes such things as how big fountain sodas can be in certain locations and what type of food you can eat.
Universal Background Checks
- Thread starter Lenny_D
- Start date
gregintenn
Member
A rule of thumb to live by:
If the solution to a problem, real or imagined, involves more government, the answer should always be NO.
If the solution to a problem, real or imagined, involves more government, the answer should always be NO.
scooter123
Member
While this does have the potential to be true that information cannot currently be used by ANY Law Enforcement agency. Because keeping those records is in DIRECT VIOLATION of the Federal Laws that implemented the NICS process and I believe the Gun Control Act of 1968. Specifically barring the Federal Government from keeping records of common handgun and rifle transfers was one of the "give backs" that allowed these measures to be passed. Because they are now enshrined in Federal Law it's quite possible that the more recent Gun Control Acts would have to be rescinded before this Federal Ban on keeping records could be removed from the Law.
As for the Original Topic, many states have provisions that allow those with concealed weapons permits to be exempted from an NICS check at purchase. All they have to do is fill out the 4473 form, show their carry permit and ID and they are on their way with weapon in hand. Of course those states that feature this exemption subject those seeking these carry permits to a much deeper and more rigorous background check than what the NICS does.
It's quite possible that even in New York this is the case. Because as I understand it just obtaining a permit to have a handgun in the home is a bit of an ordeal in New York and they probably do a records search a lot deeper that the NICS check in granting this basic permit.
As for some type of permit on the National level, it aint gonna happen. I also suspect that buried in the 2 most recent gun control acts there are specific bans of any Federal purchase permits of any type.
What bothers me is that these recent state responses to Newtown are distinctly lacking in any measures that would actually serve to prevent mass killings such as Newtown. Connecticut is the ONLY state that addressed putting armed protection into schools and I suspect that particular mandate will be underfunded at birth and will end up as panacea on paper with no teeth at all. As for the rest of these new laws, they are nothing more than blatant acts to punish legal firearms owners.
Alnamvet68
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I'm sure some of us, especially myself, engage in some form of universal background checking when we sell guns either on a forum site, or through other internet sites. In its most simplistic form, and one that I can see posing no threat to our 2A rights is what I do when I sell a handgun to another in another state. I use an FFL to effect the transfer through another FFL in the buyer's state. Here, I leave a legal paper trail from my end, which leads to a paper trail at the other end. The buyer will have to go through his own background check in order for his FFL to release the gun to him. If the buyer fails the check, his FFL is obligated to return the handgun to my FFL, who again, will require that I get another background check to release the handgun to me. In the rare event such as this, the seller has the option of deducting all the costs so far incurred in this failed transaction, and returning the remaining funds to the buyer, who may very well be in jail or has fled the jurisdiction. To me, this is an acceptable form of universal checks, Now, where I draw the line is having to go through all that crappola if I want to sell or give a brother, a daughter, a nephew, a childhood friend a gun; that is exactly what the anti's want, to make it a total nightmare, and a costly one at that, to transfer gun ownership between two legal and law abiding citizens.
kozmic
Member
The end game is to grab guns away from everyone (criminals, mentally impaired, law abiding, ex-LE, everyone). It's never been about public safety or the kids or background checks or mag or ammo limits. IT'S ABOUT THE GUNS. PERIOD!
They want to make any and every aspect of gun ownership as painful as getting teeth pulled, as hard as a physics exam and as expensive as a new 4x4. They don't care if they have to do it in baby steps over time. And they really don't care if they start with you and I (in fact in some regards, that's the best place for them to start).
Every congress from now on will have some form of gun legislation before them. Guaranteed. If they don't get it in this one they will try again in the next or the next but, don't question the end game.
They want to make any and every aspect of gun ownership as painful as getting teeth pulled, as hard as a physics exam and as expensive as a new 4x4. They don't care if they have to do it in baby steps over time. And they really don't care if they start with you and I (in fact in some regards, that's the best place for them to start).
Every congress from now on will have some form of gun legislation before them. Guaranteed. If they don't get it in this one they will try again in the next or the next but, don't question the end game.
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quneur
Member
The only check I would submit to is one issued to me in the same amount of funds the government grant gave to Princeton University to study duck genitalia. 
All for it
I strongly support background checks on any government slug who wants to check on me or my family-I want to know everything about them-after all what do they have to hide?
The government drones who check you when you buy at a dealer are paid by your tax dollars-YOU are a citizen-not their slave-yet if you beak the law on this paper trail-the thugs can break down our door-threaten your children-spouse-pets-all over a piece of paper-
Its not about crime-its about eliminating YOU as a thteat to tyrany-
Like you said -you shouldn't have anything to hide-I don't-I am and will remain a threat to tyrany.
I strongly support background checks on any government slug who wants to check on me or my family-I want to know everything about them-after all what do they have to hide?
The government drones who check you when you buy at a dealer are paid by your tax dollars-YOU are a citizen-not their slave-yet if you beak the law on this paper trail-the thugs can break down our door-threaten your children-spouse-pets-all over a piece of paper-
Its not about crime-its about eliminating YOU as a thteat to tyrany-
Like you said -you shouldn't have anything to hide-I don't-I am and will remain a threat to tyrany.
SW_shooter
Member
At first I thought background checks wouldn't be such a bad idea or compromise. But the more I thought about it I realized something. If I'm a bad guy and I have something in my background that would keep me from getting a gun at the LGS, I ain't gonna go there and try to purchase a gun. I'm gonna go to my dealer or some other bg and get an unregistered gun. If I'm a potential bg, meaning I have plansd to do something bad with a gun I am also not going to go buy a gun from a lgs.
So having thought about that I asked myself, are the gun grabbers delusional or in denial or just stupid? Probably a combo platter of all three was my final conclusion. BGs will always find alternative methods and paths to obtaining guns. The kid in CT wouldn't been covered by a background check because he used his mother's weapons, so when are the gun grabbers going to add "family and associates" to the background checks of an individual applying for a gun purchase? You can't do a check for intent, so looking at my history isn't going to correctly tell you what I intend to do with the next purchase.
Background checks are just lip service and a way for the gun grabbers to say, "see we are doing something to make it better". How about making the punishment tougher and more severe for someone caught using a gun in a crime? I'd be all for life in jail or servitude or worse. And yes there are going to be "crazies" who just don't care or have a death wish and are determined to still commit the crime. I don't know how you prevent those people from doing crazy, just make the punishment more severe than sitting them in a private 8x10 cell w/3 hots'n a cot.
Man, this topic has gotten my blood pressure up and my anger is running in over-drive. Time to chill and think of puppies and happier days while Zamfir plays in the background and incense fills the air with a thick cloud of "I don't care" aroma.
So having thought about that I asked myself, are the gun grabbers delusional or in denial or just stupid? Probably a combo platter of all three was my final conclusion. BGs will always find alternative methods and paths to obtaining guns. The kid in CT wouldn't been covered by a background check because he used his mother's weapons, so when are the gun grabbers going to add "family and associates" to the background checks of an individual applying for a gun purchase? You can't do a check for intent, so looking at my history isn't going to correctly tell you what I intend to do with the next purchase.
Background checks are just lip service and a way for the gun grabbers to say, "see we are doing something to make it better". How about making the punishment tougher and more severe for someone caught using a gun in a crime? I'd be all for life in jail or servitude or worse. And yes there are going to be "crazies" who just don't care or have a death wish and are determined to still commit the crime. I don't know how you prevent those people from doing crazy, just make the punishment more severe than sitting them in a private 8x10 cell w/3 hots'n a cot.
Man, this topic has gotten my blood pressure up and my anger is running in over-drive. Time to chill and think of puppies and happier days while Zamfir plays in the background and incense fills the air with a thick cloud of "I don't care" aroma.
rolomac
Member
Mental patients, registered sex offenders, gangbangers, convicted felons and drug users will not submit to a background check - they know better. The only people who will willingly submit are law abiding gun owners who will line up and say "sure - I don't have anything to hide." and they will be entered into the system - registration. "Universal" background check = registration.
rolomac
rolomac
Add in this, the medical database, they're building
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/309269-electronic-medical-records-here-confiscation-too.html
This is way bigger than your guns or your medical records, this is about a battle that's been going on since the dawn of man.Since that topic is one that's on the list for non discussion, that's about all I'll say, lest the monkey crush me.
Just the Monkey???
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Since that topic is one that's on the list for non discussion, that's about all I'll say, lest the monkey crush me.
Just the Monkey???
AND others
...................
It works
That's how it is in AZ, show your CCW card, fill out the form, pay your $$ walk out with your new toy.
Good luck with reproprosity.
be well
That's how it is in AZ, show your CCW card, fill out the form, pay your $$ walk out with your new toy.
Good luck with reproprosity.
be well
mkk41
US Veteran
I'm have no problem with a national background check as long as there is no Federal registration attached. PA has had an Instant Background Check System since the Brady Bill was passed. I was a dealer at the time. Your name , ht/wt and PA D/L number is called into the state police and you are approved , disapproved or put into a 'further research' catagory. Normally within 5mins. No description or record of the guns other than the standard 4473 and dealers logbook.
In fact , registration of firearms and owners by LE/Gov't is against PA law.
I currently have a C&R FFL so anything I buy has to be recorded in my book.
The PA State Police however has maintained an illegal "Record of Sale" database of handguns.
In fact , registration of firearms and owners by LE/Gov't is against PA law.
I currently have a C&R FFL so anything I buy has to be recorded in my book.
The PA State Police however has maintained an illegal "Record of Sale" database of handguns.
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armenius
US Veteran
It seems to me there is no problem back checking firearms to place of sale and to buyer.I have seen this in news stories.
It is all about people control and nothing else.It has been said in several ways if you listen closely to the Registrar in Chief and the Court Jester,both having said recently "this is a good beginning".
I believe the only safe guns in the future will be those "lost","stolen",or passed through several hands or bought before 1968,or sealed and buried.
If we go along easily,our other God given rights will soon follow.
I recommend thet you order the book and information regarding the 1968 GCA and gun control from Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.It is an eye opener revealing the 1968 GCA was a direct copy of the Nazi gun control law,and everyone knows how that worked out.For any skeptics,the photostat copies of the German Law is on the left pages and the 1968GCA on the other!Sen. Dodds didn't even change the forms.
We must support NRA and other pro-liberty groups,write the Senators and Congressmen,vote,educate others,and Pray.
It is all about people control and nothing else.It has been said in several ways if you listen closely to the Registrar in Chief and the Court Jester,both having said recently "this is a good beginning".
I believe the only safe guns in the future will be those "lost","stolen",or passed through several hands or bought before 1968,or sealed and buried.
If we go along easily,our other God given rights will soon follow.
I recommend thet you order the book and information regarding the 1968 GCA and gun control from Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.It is an eye opener revealing the 1968 GCA was a direct copy of the Nazi gun control law,and everyone knows how that worked out.For any skeptics,the photostat copies of the German Law is on the left pages and the 1968GCA on the other!Sen. Dodds didn't even change the forms.
We must support NRA and other pro-liberty groups,write the Senators and Congressmen,vote,educate others,and Pray.
I'm have no problem with a national background check as long as there is no Federal registration attached.
..........................
The PA State Police however has maintained an illegal "Record of Sale" database of handguns.
And you have reason to believe that the Federal Government would be more trustworthy than the state of PA?
ChattanoogaPhil
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A. Criminals don't obey the law
B. Criminals will not submit to background checks
C. Criminals will get guns anyway
I have listened to Wayne LaPierre repeat this a gazillion times... I believe him.
Why would any NRA member support this farce called NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System), let alone the notion of expanding it to private sales?
Now I might see some value to a list of mentally ill folks... but criminal background checks for criminals who will not submit to the checks and get guns anyway seems about absurd as it gets.
B. Criminals will not submit to background checks
C. Criminals will get guns anyway
I have listened to Wayne LaPierre repeat this a gazillion times... I believe him.
Why would any NRA member support this farce called NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System), let alone the notion of expanding it to private sales?
Now I might see some value to a list of mentally ill folks... but criminal background checks for criminals who will not submit to the checks and get guns anyway seems about absurd as it gets.
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wheelgun28
Member
We have had to do this for hand guns for years. Its now a must for long guns. I dont have a real problem with the back round check part, other parts I am not wild about.
Heres how it works, if your selling me a hand gun. We fill out a state form in quadruplicate. Has buyer, seller names address permit numbers, caliber, manufacture, model, barrel length etc. The seller then calls the state and says I am selling a hand gun to permit number xyz. State says yeah or nay if yeah gives a number. The number goes on the form, done.
Now the part I dont care for is that this form is for the buyer, seller, buyers local PD and the state Dept of Public Safety
They werent supposed to keep the information, but they did so its a defacto registration. Its also very inaccurate...
With long guns I dont think you need to send them into the PD or DPS. Prior to the new law long guns were sold with cash and a smile face to face.
The ONLY thing I can see as a plus from getting a number from the state is that, if the seller goes crazy or gets caught doing bad things or any other non sense. The state said he was OK and you have a number to prove it...
Yes I worry about liability in EVERYTHING and I am carefull
Heres how it works, if your selling me a hand gun. We fill out a state form in quadruplicate. Has buyer, seller names address permit numbers, caliber, manufacture, model, barrel length etc. The seller then calls the state and says I am selling a hand gun to permit number xyz. State says yeah or nay if yeah gives a number. The number goes on the form, done.
Now the part I dont care for is that this form is for the buyer, seller, buyers local PD and the state Dept of Public Safety
They werent supposed to keep the information, but they did so its a defacto registration. Its also very inaccurate...
With long guns I dont think you need to send them into the PD or DPS. Prior to the new law long guns were sold with cash and a smile face to face.
The ONLY thing I can see as a plus from getting a number from the state is that, if the seller goes crazy or gets caught doing bad things or any other non sense. The state said he was OK and you have a number to prove it...
Yes I worry about liability in EVERYTHING and I am carefull
Lord, Have Mercy!
And people wonder why I am so adamant about not allowing anyone other than the Georgia General Assembly and the Governor to be involved in making laws for Georgia gun owners.
Consider that any UBC or even national carry reciprocity would have to find some middle ground between an oppressive, tyrannical system such as is described above, and our system here in Georgia. What ever came out of such an effort would certainly be bad for Georgia.
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