UPDATE: Pre-WWII 44 S&W date/data

[rct269]

I've been able to spare myself the need to know about which markings communicated which finish was to be applied by not having any nickel guns. That said, the N stamped as you've described tells the finishing folks, "I'm supposed to be nickel.". Similarly, the absence of any such marks told them the same thing-----at a different point in time. My only nickel experience is with one Registered Magnum, which has to be going back at least 20 years----probably a bit more. Needless to say, that gun's from the same era as yours. My best recollection is it carried no finish stamps whatsoever---and I know it lettered as nickel.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[CScott]

Plain Jane second models look like this.

Plain Jane? Really? Looks pretty good to me!
Scott

 

[Muley Gil]

Many of the pre WW II revolvers have a "B" prefix on the serial number that is under the barrel or in the barrel shroud. A lack of the "B" indicates a nickel finish.

There has been at least one 2nd model .44 on the forum that has been re-barreled with a shrouded 3rd model barrel.

 

[44specialfan]

Afternoon Folks ...

#1 My thanks to the moderators for correcting my initial posting error and combining our back-and-forth exchanges into this single thread. And again, please excuse my posting error.

#2 Well, early this morning I found that covey of quail and got one bird to hold long enough to put it in the game bag!!

#3 What now sits on my desktop is a very, very dirty 3rd Model 44 HE, serial number 34693. As advertised, she's a 4" gun, 3 screws on the right side plate and single cylinder stop screw on the front of the trigger guard. Matching numbers on the bottom of the frame, in the barrel shroud extractor groove, the face of the cylinder and on the underside of the extractor star. The trigger and hammer are case hardened as is the extractor star, and the rounded portion of the hammer is marked "REG.US.PAT.OFF". The barrel is marked "SMITH & WESSON" on the left side, "*44 S&W SPECIAL CTG*" on the right side, and the top of the barrel is free of any markings. Right side of the frame and forward of the trigger guard she's marked "MADE IN U.S.A.". And finally, on the right side of the frame under the right grip panel she is marked with an upper case "N".

#4 She locks up fine, with barrel and cylinder appearing to be OK but I'm not going to know for sure until I get her cleaned. Nickel is a mix of very nice to frosted to worn. One ding on the underside of the trigger guard and another on the top of the muzzle but not extending into the muzzle itself.

#5 Unfortunately, the grips are not period correct but are more contemporary S&W grips. The right grip has "260456" pressed into the wood and then ink stamped on the wood "3/47" ... the left grip has a single ink stamp reading "3/45914??". The stamp on the right grip trails off wood, so my two question marks are to indicate numbers I'm unable to make a guess about.

I've never been faced with having to clean up a nickel gun so need knowledgable members to please help me out. If blued and equally dirty I'd soak it in KROIL for 24-48 hrs and see what happens but I don't want to do any additional damage to the finish. Help in how to carefully start the process would be much appreciated.

Yes, I know it didn't happen without pictures as proof. I'll be happy to post before and after ones in the very near future and yes, I'll be lettering the gun in an attempt to learn when it was shipped/sold to Wolf & Klas in Ft Worth. At least that's who I believe it most probably would have been purchased at wholesale by.

There's a bit more to the story but I want to get this posted so I can get you input on cleaning up a rode 'hard and put away wet' 44 HE.

Regards from Colorado, Tony

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Hi Tony. Clean it like any other dirty gun. I use aerosol auto parts/carb/break cleaner to flush the action of old varnish/oil/dirt when I don't want to remove the sideplate for thorough cleaning. Then lube it with 5 drops of gun oil. For the finish, some Mother's Mag or Flitz polish will shine it up and you should be good to go.

 

[Hondo44]

Is there any evidence the front sight and base have been re-installed?
Like a solder seam under the base to barrel, and lack of a smooth radius on all four sides of the sight base blending into the barrel.

Is the nicer nickel plating on the barrel?

A pre war barrel w/o patent dates and address on the top of the barrel is not right. I'm thinking they were removed and barrel shortened to 4".

 

[Muley Gil]

"...3 screws on the right side plate..."

There should be 4 screws securing the side plate. Your grips may be covering the 4th screw.

 

[44specialfan]

Wiregrassguy ... appreciate that advice and I'll get started on the clean-up here shortly.
Hondo44 ... the absence of patent dates and an address on the barrel has bothered me as well but at least to my eye, the markings on the right and left side of the barrel appear to be properly placed and proportioned based on the 4" pictures I've seen posted here. I've been unable to find a picture showing the top of a 4" barrel here but if anyone could point be towards one, or post a picture of one, that would certainly help. Also, there's no indication that the front sight has been moved and reinstalled or any other visible clue that a longer original barrel was shortened. The plating on the barrel and frame appear uniform to my untrained eye, but this is my first vintage nickel finished revolver so my opinion is certainly untested/suspect in this area.
Muley Gil ... You are of course 'right on' regarding my bogus screw count. I fat fingered the 3 when typing as it most certainly has 4 screws on the right side plate. I also forgot to note the presence of the small S&W shield on the left side of the frame directly under the cylinder release. The 3rd Model in the 33500 range with the beautiful stag grips that Wheelgun610 posted in #9 above and this one (#34693) look the same, with the exception that his in truly beautiful vs. my 'rode hard and put away wet' revolver.

As much as I'd like to wait, guess I'd best get busy and take pictures of how she presently looks before cleaning to help further meaningful discussions. Also just for reference, I'm in this gun for $750.00, tax & tags out the door.

Hope to continue our on-line discussions and learn more about today's purchase.

Tony

 

[Muley Gil]

"...I'm in this gun for $750.00, tax & tags out the door."

You done good, my man!

 

[44specialfan]

Thanks for that vote of confidence Muley Gil. Hope you - and others - will agree after I take and get pictures posted. She's not terrible looking - at least to my eye - but nowhere near the example I stumbled into several years ago ... a 5" blued post war 44 HE that still takes my breath away.

Tony

 

[Hondo44]

Tony,

We'll know more when we see it. The logo size and location indicates pre 1936 manufacture.

The barrel could have perfect side roll marks and still have the top address/dates removed; they'r very shallow stamped because the digits are so small.

The only other barrel you could have since the sight looks original is a post war barrel replacement. The hangup, however, is that the barrel is #s matching to the gun. That is usually only possible if done at the factory. But you didn't mention a star on the butt following the s/n or a date stamp on the left side of grip frame under the grip panel.

 

[wheelgun610]

.... A pre war barrel w/o patent dates and address on the top of the barrel is not right. I'm thinking they were removed and barrel shortened to 4".

I believe Triple Locks were the only pre-war four inch N frames with patent info rollmarks, and they had it on the right side of the barrel. My four inch 3rd Model in the 33500 serial range doesn't have it, but my 6-1/2" in the 54000's does.

Mark

 

[44specialfan]

Hondo44 ... You are correct on the absence on a star following the serial number on the butt. Definitely not there. At least to my eye in it's current very dirty condition, I see no date stamp on either side of the grip frame itself indicating post production factory work. What are there are the normal assembly/processing characters which on this revolver include what appears to be the letter "K", and possibly a "Z" and/or a "1" on the left side of the frame while on the right side I see the expected letter "N" and possibly a "V" and a "D". Your observation regarding shallow/small top of barrel markings most certainly seems logical. It could certainly left the factory as a nickel and been refinished at some later point in it's life. Of course I'm still hoping a letter from Roy will indicate it shipped as a 4" nickel 44 HE. Wondering what we'll discover is for me part of the fun!

Tony

 

[44specialfan]

WOW Wheelgun610 ... I believe your #32 post above has made my day!!! Thank-you for that ray of sunshine sir !!

Would still like to know where you got the handsome stag grips shown in your picture. I'm a real sucker for stag with nice bark which yours most certainly is!!

Tony

 

[wheelgun610]

WOW Wheelgun610 ... I believe your #32 post above has made my day!!! Thank-you for that ray of sunshine sir !!

Would still like to know where you got the handsome stag grips shown in your picture. I'm a real sucker for stag with nice bark which yours most certainly is!!

Tony

Thanks Tony. Those stocks are a lot newer than the gun. They are genuine Sambar stag. I believe I got them from an ebay seller, but it's been several years.

Mark

 

[44specialfan]

Thanks Mark but regardless of age, they really are handsome. Thanks again for taking the time to contribute to my continuing education. Tony

 

[Hondo44]

I believe Triple Locks were the only pre-war four inch N frames with patent info rollmarks, and they had it on the right side of the barrel. My four inch 3rd Model in the 33500 serial range doesn't have it, but my 6-1/2" in the 54000's does.

Mark

Thanks Mark,

Always more nuances to learn about S&Ws.

 

[44specialfan]

Adding Pictures

Here are a few pictures showing her current condition. Tony

 

[44specialfan]

A few more pictures ...

 

[wheelgun610]

Here are a few pictures showing her current condition....

Looks like what you'd expect for a 90-ish year old gun with its original nickel finish. And one that definitely didn't spend its life in a sock drawer. That finish might be revived a little with something like Flitz Metal Polish or Mother's Mag polish, but don't get too agressive with it. Do it by hand with a soft cloth while you're watching TV.

Mark