UPDATED***Over Reacted last Night, Probably Over Thinking It Today.

[Smoke]

Hi Smoke. I'm glad that everything worked out okay. But I wonder what could have happened if you had encountered another citizen out walking his dog and also happened to pull his weapon when he heard the shots though.

I’m not sure how to answer that.

First, I want to point out that that when I’m out with the dogs I pay attention to my surroundings. I pay closer attention along that street because it is a little dark and there are cars (AKA hiding places) parked along it and I pay strict attention to any other dog walker because I’ve had them come right up to me with their little yippy dogs when my dog is making it quite clear she wants to eat them and I’m doing everything I can to get my dog away from them.

So, long story short had there been another person walking a dog in the AO it wouldn’t have been a surprise to me.

Second point by the time I drew I was already behind concealment and in the shadows I doubt anyone could have seen me.

I have had some training and this wasn’t my first rodeo; I wasn’t standing there in a modified Weaver stance. I drew to low ready and was scanning the area. I knew I couldn’t see anyone and as I stated in the OP I was cognizant enough to have reminded myself that I didn’t have all the facts and that I wasn’t going to fire on anyone unless they presented a direct threat to me.

While I was in the stairwell dialing 911 I was actively scanning for threats and reminding myself to look first if the if the door at the bottom of the stairs opened.

So, ultimately I wasn’t in blind panic shoot first ask questions later mode and I probably would have been just fine

 

[Smoke]

Still unclear and apologize if this has been resolved, but were there shots fired?

Be safe.

By me no. I am convinced that someone was shooting a gun either in the parking lot or in the townhomes on the other side of it.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not sure I get your point. You asked the forum (I'm a member) and you got my best answer. Never intended to offend you. I served 3 times in missions that USA asked me to serve in. My dad served 2 years in one mission. My son served in 5 missions. We are all 3 generations FRIENDS of USA (I'm from Denmark by the way).

Any way what was your point?

I took this statement

I know I don't live in a country where one is afraid when going outside or where one have to carry a weapon or where one always minds his/her own business when someone needs help, so I can't really tell. You probably did what you found necessary. Most vital is that you are thinking about your own reaction and therefor at some point will get to your own conclusion and maybe do different in a similar situation, if it should occur in the future.

We've all heard terrifying stories about American gun owners killing their own children in their own house because they thought it was an intruder.

As a bash on America, American gun owners and the freedoms that we enjoy under the Bill of Rights, if I simply misunderstood you because of language differences I apologize.

 

[Rastoff]

The leash handle has a clip on it like belt I clip it around my wrist to keep my hands free but to answer the implied question I did not abandon my dog

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you might abandon your dog. My question was only directed toward how you would handle the added factor of handling the animal. You obviously have it well in hand. The belt clip is a good idea.

 

[Smoke]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you might abandon your dog.

Given, I as much as said I panicked I think it was a reasonable question.

My question was only directed toward how you would handle the added factor of handling the animal. You obviously have it well in hand. The belt clip is a good idea.

This is actually something I've given quite a bit of thought to. I've tried to take pictures while walking the dogs enough to know that I'm better off shooting off hand than shooting with a dog tied to my support hand

 

[Smith-Nut]

I pay strict attention to any other dog walker because I’ve had them come right up to me with their little yippy dogs when my dog is making it quite clear she wants to eat them and I’m doing everything I can to get my dog away from them.

So, long story short had there been another person walking a dog in the AO it wouldn’t have been a surprise to me.

It could have been someone without a dog but still with a gun

Regarding what to do when having a dog along:

Being a dogowner (3 dogs) I can only say the best way to fire a weapon and handle a dog is by giving the command "STAY". If you have to run away simply call the dog when you are in cover yourself. Trying to get through a gunfight with a dog in a leach is a secure way to fall on the ground (oh by the way I work K9 for the army present and have fired a round or two with my K9 close by).

I took this statement As a bash on America, American gun owners and the freedoms that we enjoy under the Bill of Rights, if I simply misunderstood you because of language differences I apologize.

My point was I'm not an American so I can't 100 % say if you overreacted however I've been to your great country several times and have naturally not carried a gun and have not stayed out of this or that place and NEVER felt scared or in need of a weapon (however I would gladly carry but that is a different matter).

 

[Smoke]

It could have been someone without a dog but still with a gun

True but I already covered that eventuality in the post you quoted.

First, I want to point out that that when I’m out with the dogs I pay attention to my surroundings. (Not just other dog owners) I pay closer attention along that street because it is a little dark and there are cars (AKA hiding places) parked along it and (means dog owners aren't the only thing I pay attention to) I pay strict attention to any other dog walker

So, long story short had there been another person walking a dog in the AO it wouldn’t have been a surprise to me.

I specified dog walkers because the person questioning me specified dog walkers

Regarding what to do when having a dog along:

Being a dogowner (3 dogs) I can only say the best way to fire a weapon and handle a dog is by giving the command "STAY". If you have to run away simply call the dog when you are in cover yourself. Trying to get through a gunfight with a dog in a leach is a secure way to fall on the ground (oh by the way I work K9 for the army present and have fired a round or two with my K9 close by).

Where I was I could have fired (if necessary) from a supported firing position.

My point was I'm not an American so I can't 100 % say if you overreacted however I've been to your great country several times and have naturally not carried a gun and have not stayed out of this or that place and NEVER felt scared or in need of a weapon (however I would gladly carry but that is a different matter).

So, I'll chalk it up to language differences and appologize

 

[Rastoff]

My point was I'm not an American so I can't 100 % say if you overreacted however I've been to your great country several times and have naturally not carried a gun and have not stayed out of this or that place and NEVER felt scared or in need of a weapon (however I would gladly carry but that is a different matter).

This is an interesting comment. I've been to Europe and felt the same way; never felt like I needed a gun. However, I'll bet it has much to do with where we went and what were used to dealing with.

The environment we grow up in sets the stage for how comfortable we'll feel in any given situation. For example, where I grew up there was a commuter train. I never once felt in danger while riding it. I went to New York once and rode the subway. Because of my experience in my youth, I felt right at home on the subway, but I'll bet it was more dangerous than I thought. It was my previous experience that lead me to be comfortable.

The same goes here. I'll bet I could take you on a walk through Compton in the day time and you'd feel perfectly comfortable. There's a 90% chance that no one would bother us, but two white guys walking down the street in Compton is not necessarily safe. Especially if you have the wrong color on.

So, experience and familiarity is a definite factor in any situation. I'll bet the OP has a certain understanding of his area that we simply don't have. We might feel safe when we shouldn't.

 

[Wingmaster]

To me the bottom line is, You carry a firearm to defend yourself. You were in a situation where their was a real possibility that you were going to need to defend yourself. You put yourself in a "ready" condition.
Your firearm is not going to do you any good in its holster.
I think the situation deserved to have your "ready' response.

Wingmaster

 

[Chillock]

Smoke,

I think you did fine. Whether self trained, LE trained or military trained, a good reaction is at the very least would have been to grab your weapon, whether or not to draw, well, in moment, you had no idea where the threat really was at.

Out of the light and took cover... Bet you didn't have to "think" that, you just did it. Training, instinct, whatever you want to call it. Under similar circumstances I had my hand over my gun, ready to draw. In my case had the shots been closer than they were (an easy 100ft away) I would have drawn as I took cover.

Not giving a description, that's up to you. I have an advantage, when I call 911, I give my name and ff/emt call number, rural area most LE know me (for good reasons). I have seen/heard the description of a reporting party be taken as a suspect. And vice verse. As far as the call back to 911, we do so to give size up in that situation. I have had 911 operator, disconnect on me when I was giving patient info. Not good and the operator will never do it again I'm told.

Self preservation, put as much distance between you and the unknown threat then call 911 ASAP.

You did good. Unless you have been in that situation, no one knows how they will react. We all would like to think we know but we don't.

I have seen LE loose their lunch at MVI's (motor vehicle incidents) that have see it all for 20 years. (happened last year just before Christmas). I have seen Medics do the same.

It all depends on your experiences in life.

Don't over think it. You did good and you are a live.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Does noone else see the dog as a good guy sign here? I wouldn't think someone would take a dog with them to do something illegal...cue the contrarionists...

You got home alive. Who cares if you feel silly about a few things? The dog got its walk and the wife got you both back in one piece. If you hadn't drawn, consider this: what if the shooter had come running around the corner at you? Without the gun drawn you might have to live through a few shots of his before taking some of your own. With the gun drawn you've got a chance at getting the first commands and shots off if necessary. You won! Yay for you and Happy New Year!

 

[shouldazagged]

Does noone else see the dog as a good guy sign here? I wouldn't think someone would take a dog with them to do something illegal...

Good point, and one I hadn't considered. Almost the only time I'm out after dark anymore (don't feel safe driving at night due to vision) my dog is with me. I doubt that someone my age, walking with a cane, would appear suspect anyway, but the pooch should help nail it down.

 

[Smoke]

Good point, and one I hadn't considered. Almost the only time I'm out after dark anymore (don't feel safe driving at night due to vision) my dog is with me. I doubt that someone my age, walking with a cane, would appear suspect anyway, but the pooch should help nail it down.

Criminals everywhere are going to log in and learn that they can escape dectection with a dog and a cane now

 

[shouldazagged]

Criminals everywhere are going to log in and learn that they can escape dectection with a dog and a cane now

They'll also have to learn to portray, convincingly, a 76-year-old geezer with bad knees and no lungs. Somehow I doubt many in the thug demographic would find that appealing.

 

[Yiogo]

Who's to say how you should have reacted? You are the best judge of that.

Do you think you should have drawn, Smoke?

Reactions are situational.

I live in the "country", am in the woods a lot and go to the range 3 times per week if not more, so hearing gun shots around here does not raise my hackles. During gun season I hear gun shots frequently.

On the other hand, hearing a gun shot in a city may give me pause.

Yiogo

 

[Smoke]

Do you think you should have drawn, Smoke?

I did draw but I think it was premature

 

[Smith-Nut]

Criminals everywhere are going to log in and learn that they can escape dectection with a dog and a cane now

He, he but believe me criminals own dog, have children and some even get to turn 76

Also a dog wheelchair etc. are sometimes used by good guys in order not to be spottet by bad guys when doing surveillance or approaching a "target" so you are NEVER "home free" just because things appears to be OK.

By the way in your situation where you have checked your surroundings you will never know if someone who might be a part of what was going on, had taken cover (hidden between two cars, behind a trashcan, in a doorway etc. etc.) before you could see the actual area you where in, when the shots where fired. So no matter how careful one is, you can't 100 % be sure that someone who was a part of what was going on, couldn't have seen you drawing a gun and then decided you where a threat. I know I'm guessing but from your story I got the impression it was after sunset.

 

[Smoke]

If I didn’t learn anything from this there wouldn’t be any point in having this discussion. On another forum I was asked what I would do differently.

The first thing doesn’t have anything to do with the incident but at either end of the apartment complex on that street there’s a really bright spot light to light up the sign for the apartments; so I’m half blinded if I walk down the street there after dark in either direction. I won’t be doing that anymore.

As for the incident itself I wouldn’t be as quick to draw this time and I won’t be calling the police until I can actually report something. I think I would have been better off getting home then calling if at all

 

[SgtLumpy]

... I won’t be calling the police until I can actually report something. I think I would have been better off getting home then calling if at all

I don't see that as prudent or helpful.

Consider the difference in -

"I think I just heard gunshots coming from the area of XYZ"

vs

"About a half hour ago, I think I might have heard gunshots coming from the area of XYZ"

There's nothing wrong with calling in gunshots that eventually turn out to be firecrackers or turn out to be non-findable (as most are). But you might just call it in, cops arrive, and find a wounded victim. Or they might find an armed bad guy.

Even in the most typical scenario, arrived, unable to locate, back in service, the cops will begin to see that "we get a lot of calls about gunshots over at XYZ apartments". They'll patrol that area more. It's never the opposite "Oh we keep getting calls about gunshots but can't ever find anything. We'll quit patrolling that area".

I think you did exactly what you should have done. Stayed safe, stayed alert, knew where you were at, called it in, went home with Fido that night.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[Smith-Nut]

If I didn’t learn anything from this there wouldn’t be any point in having this discussion. On another forum I was asked what I would do differently.

Excatly. And in all fairness you where caught by suprise:

I was actually cleaning up after her when I heard what I am absolutely convinced was a gun shot

Not the best startout possition

Secondly you didn't draw your gun untill aditional gunshots where heard.

Any way if it has always been mention I apologize but what was the gun you drew?