UPDATED***Over Reacted last Night, Probably Over Thinking It Today.

[Rastoff]

*
I think she wanted to know if it was the left or right side of the roadway, which does matter sometimes in terms of how the emergency vehicles approach the scene.

I don't think that was the issue in my case. She was having trouble processing directions like South and West. If I had said right instead of south bound we might have got somewhere quicker. The problem is right is relative and West is absolute. So, in trying to be precise I only made things worse. The directions I gave should not confuse a 911 operator.

When talking to them, never speculate. Just say what you know. Saying, "I didn't see a gun", doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

[Smoke]

As far as your "training kicking in" in an ideal world youd have hit the deck or found cover

I'm actually surprised I didn't. the last time something like this happened (At work one night close to the .50 range Ft. Carson, I walked out the door to get in the "patrol vehicle" just as someone opened up a .50 on the range) that's exactly what I did. I've also been known to hit the ground in Chuck-e- Cheese when a balloon pops. I'd even go so far as to call it a good thing because it means I'm not as tightly wound as I used to be.

As far as telling 911 what you were wearing...that i wouldnt have done.

As pointed out by Venom I want the responding cops to know exactly what I look like when they roll up on to what looks to me like a perfect ambush site in the dark expecting to find a bad guy with a gun. Which means they very likely will have their weapons drawn.

If at all possible I want them to know that the fat old guy wearing tan pants and a blue ski jacket with the dog is the guy that called the cops in the first place.

 

[BigCityChief]

I was out walking my dog last night. I was actually cleaning up after her when I heard what I am absolutely convinced was a gun shot from the parking lot at the end of the building, maybe 75 feet away. I actually remember thinking "Oh **** my wife is going to hear that and think it's me."



I'm not sure how to explain it but there was a second where I just kept cleaning up the dog mess before reality set in.



First thing I did was drop the poop bag (believe it or not my mind actually processed the decision to do so) and start moving out of the light and toward the building and away from the sound of the shot.



As I got to the side of building I heard two more shots in rapid succession. At that point I drew my gun and started scanning for threats.



I don't know if my training kicked in or my mind was just working overtime but I remember actually reminding myself that I had no idea what was going on and that whatever it was I wasn't getting involved unless someone pointed a gun at me. Then it occurred to me that the last thing I wanted was for someone to look out their window after hearing the shots and see me sitting there with a gun, so I put the gun in my pocket (which was a mistake if only because I could have lost it in the dark if it fell out of my pocket I should have put it back in the holster or kept it in my hand.)



Now I'm thinking the smartest thing for me to do is get the Hell out of Dodge, so I start backing down the building to the other end. As I came around the corner I ducked into the stairwell of the building and I remember taking time to look at the building address because I knew I was going to call the police as soon as I was under cover.



So I got into the building, dialed 911 and waited while the phone rang and rang and rang and rang and rang. The fact that it took so long for anyone to pick up had me a little freaked out and I was pretty shrill when I finally got someone on the phone but I gave her my location, the nearest cross street and told her what I had heard. I aslo told her where I thought the shots came from in relation to the known location (intersection)



She told me the police were on the way and to stay where I was. I told her that I thought the shots came from the building I was in and had no intention of staying there. I then told her exactly what I was wearing (making no mention of the fact that I was armed) in case the cops showed while I was getting back to my apartment and left the building.



On my way back to my building I could see where I thought the shots came from and I called 911 back told them who I was and that it didn't appear that there was anyone where I thought I heard the shots from and that no more shots had been fired. They actually seemed upset at me for calling with the update.



And that's the last I heard I don't even know if the police ever showed up.



So, I think I over reacted by drawing my firearm and I think I panicked a little on the phone.



What do you guys think I did wrong?

I think what you did was reasonable and motivated by your desire to be a good citizen. By the way, Happy New Year to you, sir.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Responses to this situation will vary depending on circumstances. For 35 years my response would have been to call 911, ID myself, and walk toward the sounds. Now, being retired and a senior citizen, I would have done a 180 and walked the other way. And you don't have to move towards trouble, if it's nearby it can find you. There will be plenty of others who will call 911 and the idea of becoming involved in a bad situation, with no authority, does not appeal to me. And consider this. At times dispatchers are overwhelmed with calls. If I called them at a time they were dealing with numerous other calls, giving them details about me, I'm not sure that information would be accurately be relayed to the responding officers. I'd hate to have my description mixed up with a suspect. In any of these situations we need to ask ourselves why are we getting involved.

 

[checkmyswag]

this is actually a good thing to do most of the time.
That description assists greatly in sorting out the white hats from the back hats when Law enforcement rolls up to see everyone runnin' around with a fistful of pistol.
the description may or may not make it to the responding officers, however if it does, it gives them one less person to shoot at when everyone looks like a legitimate target

Go ahead and give a description if you want. Might fit the shooter or there might be someone on the phone w 911 seeing YOU with a dark object (phone) in your hand calling 911 and reporting YOU as the shooter. Friend was doing a ride along with a cop the other day and there was a report of a guy with a rifle...they roll up on him, cop sees black object and draws on him. Wasnt a gun.

Way too many variables and while a crime is in progress or just happened, police work is chaos and not CSI.

Id make it very apparent i wasnt a threat to the police if they rolled up on the scene in other ways.

 

[arjay]

Chaos is right.last year,less than a mile from here,two depts responded to a shots fired call.A Leo from one dept didn't respond fast enough to a challenge from a Leo from the second dept.He was killed...

 

[Rastoff]

I'm surprised at all the people suggesting to not give a description of yourself. How is that a bad thing? I mean, sure, it might not get relayed to the cop on the scene, but if it does, it can only help you.

 

[checkmyswag]

I'm surprised at all the people suggesting to not give a description of yourself. How is that a bad thing? I mean, sure, it might not get relayed to the cop on the scene, but if it does, it can only help you.

And if it gets relayed incorrectly? Youve played the game telephone im sure.

Some of you all trust and trust in cops too much.

 

[Rastoff]

And if it gets relayed incorrectly?

So what? If you don't tell them at all, everyone is a bad guy when they arrive. At least by telling them you have a chance that they'll know who the good guy is when they get there.

I'll bet you don't sign the back of your credit cards either.

 

[SgtLumpy]

I'm surprised at all the people suggesting to not give a description of yourself...

I am as well.

But of course, down at the cop shop, we have a computerized description and photos, and real-time black helicopter, satellite and traffic cam views of everyone, linked to their cellphone numbers. When you call, we can tell if you've shaved that day, what your Visa card balance is, and if you still owe on that old college tuition loan from 35 years ago.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[Rastoff]

I am as well.

But of course, down at the cop shop, we have a computerized description and photos, and real-time black helicopter, satellite and traffic cam views of everyone, linked to their cellphone numbers. When you call, we can tell if you've shaved that day, what your Visa card balance is, and if you still owe on that old college tuition loan from 35 years ago.


Sgt Lumpy

Thanks. I completely forgot about all the modern technology the cops have these days. Don't forget the clairvoyant each department employs to solve crimes as well.

 

[checkmyswag]

So what? If you don't tell them at all, everyone is a bad guy when they arrive. At least by telling them you have a chance that they'll know who the good guy is when they get there.

I'll bet you don't sign the back of your credit cards either.

You are wrong. I dont have a credit card. I have debit cards and no i dont sign the back.

As far as giving a description of yourself, personal choice. A lot of you seem to think the cops see us as on their side or something. Like we are all the white hats. I dont want any interaction with LE unless its necessary. Please dont get a "CHL Badge"

Id make the call and that would be about it. Let the cops do their job (if they even respond) and dont try to be the hero or go for any citizen of the year award.

This isnt the movies and its not the 1950s.

 

[chud333]

Smoke,
I noticed some people have said it was a mistake or over reaction
when you pulled your gun. I am not one of those. If the shots
we're close enough to startle you, you did exactly what i'd have done.
Imagine a perp who had just shot someone coming around a blind
corner with gun in hand and you are standing there with a dog
leash in one hand and a bag of poop in the other.
Better to have it out and ready "just in case", In this situation.
Had it been during the day and other people around maybe not.
In this particular instance i think you did well.
If faced with a similar situation i believe i would have my weapon
in hand and call the police and then withdraw quickly away from
the shots. Unless my life or someone i can see is in a direct threat
situation, i'm backing away and letting the police handle it.

Chuck

 

[Rastoff]

You still haven't told us why it's bad to give your own description.

You are wrong. I dont have a credit card. I have debit cards and no i dont sign the back.

So, I was right. Why not sign it? It's the first line of defense against being misused by a criminal. Also, if you look at the signature line, you'll see a statement, "Not Valid Unless Signed."

I'll bet you don't want to sign it so a thief can't forge your signature, right? If you think about it, a thief likes it when you don't sign the back. That way they don't need to forge your signature. They can sign your name anyway they want. Combine that with a fake ID (which can be made in a few minutes) and your card is not secure. Sign the back and the criminal will at least need to atrempt to forge your signature.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's a debit card or credit card. They can all be used as credit cards these days.

Sorry for going off topic. I don't really care what anyone does with their cards. What I am curious about is how the police will use the physical description I give them against me. Give me a valid reason and I'll change my mode of operation. Anyone?

 

[Rastoff]

Chuck,
I agree about being ready, but like you said, it's situational dependant. Not being there, it's hard to know. I do think Smoke was right to reholster once he realized there was no immediate danger.

 

[RockyMtnM&P]

Good ol C Springs. I can only see this if you heard the shots I'm sure some one else may have next they see you with a gun in your hand and then the police show up. Not the best of situations to be in because you'd be picking up your own poop after the cops felony menace you to the ground. Obviously it didn't happen but it obviously put you in condition orange and you were at least aware of it instead of plugging along with the earphones in. Not judging you but just food for thought.

 

[chud333]

Agreed sir.
Different situations dictate different responses.
Best to be as aware of your surroundings as you can
and use good judgement.

Chuck

 

[Rastoff]

Here's something I hadn't thought of, did you drop the leash?

 

[mickeyblueyes]

Well as someone who is 2000 miles away I have to ask these questions to get a better picture of the situation.
You live there describe the neighborhood, is it a upper middle class gated community? lower middle class? public housing? is there regular gang activity there? If you have never had a reason to "look over your shoulder before" than now you are on alert until you get to the bottom of this shooting. In any event shooting like these cast a dark cloud on gun enthusiast like us. General public thinks no guns means no shootings.

 

[Smoke]

Here's something I hadn't thought of, did you drop the leash?

The leash handle has a clip on it like belt I clip it around my wrist to keep my hands free but to answer the implied question I did not abandon my dog

 

[Smoke]

As far as giving a description of yourself, personal choice. A lot of you seem to think the cops see us as on their side or something. Like we are all the white hats. I dont want any interaction with LE unless its necessary. Please dont get a "CHL Badge"

This has nothing to do with the cops thinking I'm the good guy or on their side. I made a purely tactical decision based on the fact I didn't know how long it was going to take the cops to show up and I knew that I was going to be moving through the potential crime scene. If the police showed up while I was doing that I wanted them to know that I was the guy that called as opposed to thinking I was the potential shooter. What I really didn't want is for the cops to felony stop me and possibly shoot my dog.

I've always been trained that you make sure the cops know what you look like when you call them, they have been known to shoot the home owner when they come into a house an find him/her holding a burglar at gun point.

My church security team was also able to participate in some active shooter training with CSPD recently (basically we were training dummies) and in every single instance when the "SWAT team" got to the "shooter's location" the "church security guy" got shot.

Key take away? (for that situation) make damn sure the police know church security is on site and what they are wearing (side note Jeanne Asaam wasn't shot at New Life because she was wearing a security uniform when the police showed up) the application for my situation should be obvious.

 

[Smith-Nut]

I think that even very experienced LEOs, soldiers or others who are placed into stressful situations regularly and more frequently than typical citizens still get faced with "I should have done XYZ". It's never fair to beat yourself up for doing something that you later think you could have done better. It IS fair to evaluate in detail and use that as a learning tool.

I have been fired upon more then once (understatement), in foreign places where Europeans, Americans, Australians, Canadians etc. are considered enemies even thought we often are there to help. One is NEVER in doubt (in the dark of night as it was in your situation) if someone is shooting at you. You will see muzzle flash and secondly you will hear impact or bullets flying by. You will know! So you where probably overreacting.

Being spotted with a gun in hand in the dark, when a possible gunfight might be going on (bad guy versus bad guy or bad guy versus good guy) could result in actually being fired upon. In a none hostile environment (and your own country should be considered so) I would ALWAYS "get out of Dodge").

I know I don't live in a country where one is afraid when going outside or where one have to carry a weapon or where one always minds his/her own business when someone needs help, so I can't really tell. You probably did what you found necessary. Most vital is that you are thinking about your own reaction and therefor at some point will get to your own conclusion and maybe do different in a similar situation, if it should occur in the future.

We've all heard terrifying stories about American gun owners killing their own children in their own house because they thought it was an intruder.

When one is a gun owner one should NEVER overreact.

 

[Smoke]

Well as someone who is 2000 miles away I have to ask these questions to get a better picture of the situation.
You live there describe the neighborhood, is it a upper middle class gated community? lower middle class? public housing?

What would you describe as middle class? the neighbor hood is mostly single family dwellings with two apartment complexes in the middle of them. but it's with in a half mile of a major intersection so any one could wander through my neighborhood at any time

is there regular gang activity there?

There's regular gang activity in Colorado Springs period

If you have never had a reason to "look over your shoulder before" than now you are on alert until you get to the bottom of this shooting.

Not sure what you mean by this but I look over my shoulder every where I go period. I do security for a living and one of the key things I tell people that I train is every so often you have to stop on your rounds and actually look around and take note of your surroundings and actually look at what's around you. This has transferred to my off shift life as well. When I walk the dogs I don't watch the dogs, I look at what is going on around me.

In any event shooting like these cast a dark cloud on gun enthusiast like us. General public thinks no guns means no shootings.

Doubt very seriously the general public will ever hear about this incident

 

[Smoke]

We've all heard terrifying stories about American gun owners killing their own children in their own house because they thought it was an intruder.

And we also know that with 100+ million gun owners in this country and possibly 20 or 30 such incident happening in the entire country every year, such incidnets while tragic statisically approach zero.

 

[MrTrolleyguy]

Well as someone who is 2000 miles away ... In any event shooting like these cast a dark cloud on gun enthusiast like us. General public thinks no guns means no shootings.

It took a minute, but I see your point.

However what is more important in this instance, and that is what this thread is about, was that his training kicked in. IMHO He is right up there with the best of our community.

Kudos to smoke!

And a happy and safe New Year to you and Smoke.

 

[Smoke]

. I know I don't live in a country where one is afraid when going outside or where one have to carry a weapon or where one always minds his/her own business when someone needs help, so I can't really tell.

You know what? You can bash America and American gun owners all you want but please don't forget that without even knowing where you're from I can almost categorically state that at some point in your country's history an American died defending your country.

 

[OFT II]

Hi Smoke. I'm glad that everything worked out okay. But I wonder what could have happened if you had encountered another citizen out walking his dog and also happened to pull his weapon when he heard the shots though.

 

[Smith-Nut]

You know what? You can bash America and American gun owners all you want but please don't forget that without even knowing where you're from I can almost categorically state that at some point in your country's history an American died defending your country.

I'm not sure I get your point. You asked the forum (I'm a member) and you got my best answer. Never intended to offend you. I served 3 times in missions that USA asked me to serve in. My dad served 2 years in one mission. My son served in 5 missions. We are all 3 generations FRIENDS of USA (I'm from Denmark by the way).

Any way what was your point?

And we also know that with 100+ million gun owners in this country and possibly 20 or 30 such incident happening in the entire country every year, such incidnets while tragic statisically approach zero.

I'm not sure the 30 incidents with maybe 300 family members being hurt directly agree, but what about all the other friendly shootings that didn't result in own children getting shot. My point is if you draw your weapon you have to be 100 % sure you are ready to use it and your target is a target you can kill with not too much regret. And having a gun in your hand, not even under direct treath could get you killed.

But I wonder what could have happened if you had encountered another citizen out walking his dog and also happened to pull his weapon when he heard the shots though.

You put it much better then I tried to do. Exactly my point.

 

[SgtLumpy]

... I completely forgot about all the modern technology the cops have these days. Don't forget the clairvoyant each department employs to solve crimes as well.

Makes it a lot easier than the old fashioned way where we had to shine a UV light on everything.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[The Big D]

Were there actually shots fired?

Still unclear and apologize if this has been resolved, but were there shots fired?

Be safe.