Updated Range Report Laser-Cast 158G LSWC

[forestswin]

Update
Best group from 6.0gr to 6.9 gr Unique

Best group from 3.3gr to 3.8 gr Bullseye

My benchmark bullet Hornady 158 gr LSWC Swaged

all at 25 yards S&W 686 6" on sandbag with scope

Am I crimping the Laser-Casts at the correct location? See sketch on target. I just noticed this difference while setting up pictures. If so I need a different powder!

 

[H Richard]

That Hornady swagged load looks good to me. The bullet is evidently softer and engaging the rifling better and providing better accuracy. The Lasercast may be too hard? Have you tried 231 or Clays? My go to powder is usually 231.

 

[mikld]

Normally for a soft, swaged bullet, without cannalure or crimp groove like the Hornady, I always taper crimp. I seat the bullet sholder even with the case mouth.

 

[GCF]

My results w/ cast 158 lswc's & Unique (4" 686) mirror yours. Plan to try Titegroup & 231.

I'm starting to wonder if swaged lead (as opposed to cast) is not the best choice for 38 / 357 target velocity loads.

These guys make an interesting product line (their jacketed .45acp are first rate), just hate to buy QTY #1000 - to try 'em out:

Roze Distribution: 38 SPECIAL (.357 DIAMETER)

 

[forestswin]

H Richard - Hello again! You responded to a post I had about testing at the range back in June. Your advice really helped me out. I printed it out and used it as checklist.

I worked on my method of shooting, SA and resting the trigger guard only on the sandbag. The groups did get smaller and I could tell when I had the grip and trigger right on. I did move my finger from the pad to the first joint so I can use the same hold for SA and DA.

I used some factory ammo for awhile, but it hurt to keep buying it. I had to go back to reloading my own, so I bought a new Hornady Classic single stage press and their dies. It was getting too hard to work the Lee Progressive 1000 as a single stage. I wanted to make sure I was assembling ammo correctly.

Then I tried this Hornady bullet, a retired gentleman at the range recommended them. The third trial (4.3, 4.5, 4.7 BINGO). I've now shot over 200 with 4.7g Unique - same tight group every time. That was the third aspect that came into place. With them I could start calling my shots. On the picture, the 2 rounds to the top right are the #5 and #6 cylinders, they always shoot a little high and to the right. I could bring them into the group, if I move the point of aim for just those 2.

I've been having accuracy problems with the laser-cast's in my gun from the start. Maybe they are too hard. But at least now I know its not my assembly of ammo or method of shooting and can move on to other bullets and powders.
Thanks again

GCF - I want to get a 4" 686 - but the 6 inch had to be my first. Now I want 3 or 4 more 686's or 586's.
I am going to add 231 to my powders too. What other cast bullets have you tried? Same results, huh? I wonder if it has anything to do with the EDM/ECM rifling of the 686's?

The swaged can only go up to around 920 fps. I know I'll want to get a cast bullet for higher velocities. I have some Penn bullets on the way - we'll see how they turn out. I'm no quitter, so I will probably end up getting another box of laser-casts and try them with 231 and maybe 2400. Too many people have said the laser-casts are great bullets. As far as I'm concerned, their load data for Bullseye (357 & 38 special) and Unique (38 special only) may be okay to hit a 6 inch steel plate - but I'm looking for ammo that can do 1 inch groups @ 25 yards on a rest, so when I shoot off hand - maybe I can stay in the black.

 

[shovelwrench]

Try zipping those lazer-cast in the 1000+ velocity range and they'll probably do great. They are SUPER hard. You could also try a healthier dose of bullseye to see the bullet will obturate for ya...

 

[H Richard]

For cast bullets, my favorite load is unfortunately no longer available, as Stonewall Bullet Co. has quit production. He had great bullets at a great price. Not super hard, but hard enough to push fairly fast. My 38 load was his RNFP 158 gr. over 4.9 gr. 231. His SWC 158 gr was over 4.7 gr. 231. Both loads were just over 900+ out of a 6" 686. My best groups with the RNFP would go just over 1 1/2" - 2". The SWC about 2 1/2". These loads were out of my "old" Lyman cast bullet handbook.

 

[GCF]

GCF - I want to get a 4" 686 - but the 6 inch had to be my first. Now I want 3 or 4 more 686's or 586's.
I am going to add 231 to my powders too. What other cast bullets have you tried? Same results, huh? I wonder if it has anything to do with the EDM/ECM rifling of the 686's?

The swaged can only go up to around 920 fps. I know I'll want to get a cast bullet for higher velocities. I have some Penn bullets on the way - we'll see how they turn out. I'm no quitter, so I will probably end up getting another box of laser-casts and try them with 231 and maybe 2400. Too many people have said the laser-casts are great bullets. As far as I'm concerned, their load data for Bullseye (357 & 38 special) and Unique (38 special only) may be okay to hit a 6 inch steel plate - but I'm looking for ammo that can do 1 inch groups @ 25 yards on a rest, so when I shoot off hand - maybe I can stay in the black.

This no dash 686, is not my first S&W 357, but it is the first that I have acquired w/ the intent to load for - as a serious shooter. I'm a big cast bullet fan (45acp, 44spl, 44mag, 41mag, 45 colt, 45-70, 444 marlin), but never before loaded this caliber. Always heard they leaded heavily, & were a bit of a PITA w/ anything other then jacketed.

Something came over me a couple of months ago, & it (as they say) was on.

Had a couple of pre-conceived misconceptions. One, was that it would be easy to find a 800 - 900fps target load w/ magnum brass, using 158 LSWC commercial cast bullets. Most seem to be too hard, or at least don't seem to stabilize well (for what ever reason) under 1000.

The Dardas 158 LSWC / .358" / 16BHN is not as hard as the LaserCast, which in my mind at least, makes it a better candidate for obduration at a lower pressure. I thought that the Unique loads would work well, but as mentioned, did not.

Next up was TiteGroup. Went out yesterday, & shot 4 TiteGroup loads, w/ this bullet: 3.9, 4.2. 4.5, & 4.8 grains. All Starline magnum brass, & capped by WWSP primers. Results were both interesting, & encouraging. The 3.9 group grain was generally centered, but scattered around the BE. 4.2 actually grouped 4 of 6 fairly nicely - w/ 2 slightly out. 4.5 was ****. 4.8 put 4 touching, w/ 2 slightly out.

Not sure about the 2 out thing, but pretty sure it's a load combo, or cylinder thing. Time will tell.

Intend to try 4.8 again, w/ 5.0, & 5.2 grains. Interesting that I found 2 sweet spots 0.6 grains apart. Also interesting that the powder ignition, once I reached what ever pressure 4.8 grains produced, sounded & felt distinctly different, then the lighter loads. Not just heavier, but different.

I'd be interested in hearing how the LaserCast 158's work w/ TiteGroup - if you've got any around. Thinking they'd work well, & that the sweet spots might be a "little" higher - then where I am finding them, w/ the 16BHN Dardas SWC.

 

[cptdco]

The link GCF provided is for Roze Distributors which is the source for Zero brand bullets. I shoot a lot of their swaged HBWC and SWC and get great accuracy. I'm convinced anymore that most of the cast bullets are too hard unless you're really driving them hard. I also really like the Zero 158 grain jacketed bullets.

 

[jepp2]

I'm convinced anymore that most of the cast bullets are too hard unless you're really driving them hard.

That is what I have found for most suppliers, but at Missouri Bullets you can select the hardness you want for your application (within certain limits of course)

 

[cptdco]

Yes, thanks. I buy a lot from Missouri also. Their 230 grain round nose is my favorite 45 ACP bullet, and I shoot a lot of their SWCs in both .357 and .44.

 

[boatbum101]

+3 on Missouri cast bullets . Lazer too hard , might work better with 38/44 or mag loads with 2400 etc . For plinking , paper punching a softer swaged bullet @ sedate velocity will work better .

 

[TheTinMan]

Is it possible that your cylinder throats are slightly over-sized and the softer, swagged bullets are giving you a better seal and entry into the forcing cone?

Just wondering because I haven't noticed any significant change in accuracy between Hornady and Penn 158 grain lead bullets. Unless the Penns are slightly more accurate.