Updated w/ pictures New Shield chamber problem?

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Purchased a 9mm Shield about a week ago which appears to have a seriously miscut chamber. +p federal 124gr HST are bulged to the point you could expect case separation. It looks like they cut the feedramp up into the chamber too far. Waiting on a label to send back to S&W. Anyone else had such a problem?

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A couple of pics of the chamber and the empty cases would be nice to see. You definitely caught my attention with this one.
 
Yes we can speculate all over, but several photos of the barrel at different angles will help. Also a pic of the bulged casing.

Bob
 
Ill try and take some when I can. There was a post with pictures on MP-pistol forum of one that looked exactly the same.
 
The pictures show it all. The barrel is screwed up. The ramp has been extended and cut up into the chamber, causing no contact at the bottom of the barrel with the casing, and thus the swelling. You've called S&W and you need a new barrel. It is a defective barrel. Another issue of poor quality control for S&W. S&W is just pushing the guns out too fast and not keeping up with quality control. This should have been caught at several stations, and especially at the test firing. I watch all the posts and this is the first I have seen of this issue, but this is probably not the first and unfortunately not likely the last of this issue.

Bob
 
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This is interesting. I'm interested in what S&W has to say about it.

The ramp does seem to be cut too high, but the bulge seems to be higher on the case than the cut in the chamber goes. I would like to see this in person. Pictures only say so much.
 
I'll keep you posted when I find out what Smith has to say. Hopefully the rest of their customer service department is More helpful than the gentleman I talked to. All he wanted to do was lecture me about not using +p ammunition because it would wear out the gun faster and that there was absolutely no gain in using +p over standard Ammunition in a 3 inch barrel. Not that I want to shoot +p for practice but if I can't load +p for defense purposes I don't need the gun.
 
I'll keep you posted when I find out what Smith has to say. Hopefully the rest of their customer service department is More helpful than the gentleman I talked to. All he wanted to do was lecture me about not using +p ammunition because it would wear out the gun faster and that there was absolutely no gain in using +p over standard Ammunition in a 3 inch barrel. Not that I want to shoot +p for practice but if I can't load +p for defense purposes I don't need the gun.

So, what IS the gain of using +p ammo over normal ammo in a self defense situation? Is it measurable in any way?
 
Gun for the wife. 40 or 45 probably a little too much recoil for her in a shield sized gun.

Hmmmm.... Good point, easy shooting for the range, bump it up for carrying....

I researched a bit and found a statement from a Winchester ammo technical guy:

When we redesigned the Ranger T-Series of ammunition we widened the velocity window under which the round would expand to allow for the slower velocities that shorter than standard barrels produce. What this means is that if you own a standard or sub compact pistol the round should have adequate expansion. In 9mm I would recommend the 147 grain bullet as it loses a lower velocity percentage than the faster lighter bullet in shorter than normal barrels. This is because the bullet has more dwell time in the bore and has a greater opportunity to burn the powder before the bullet exits the bore. Powder that is burned outside the bore does nothing for velocity. The lighter faster bullets generally have more powder to burn and since the lighter faster bullets have less time in the bore they are not efficient burners of powder in the shorter barrels.

We increased the velocity window under which the round would expand by increasing the size of the hollowpoint, tweaking the jacket thickness and the depth of the cuts on the inside of the jacket petal segments.

Paul Nowak
Senior Technical Specialist
Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition
 
I'll probably try some of the 147 g. For what it's worth the 124 grain +p chronographed 1093 fps.
 
Why question the use of +P ammo. The gun will shoot it, so why not use it. It is for carry and used only occasionally at the range, so you know what to expect in recoil, flip, and accuracy. I have a Ruger LC9, my previous edc gun. I use CorBon 115gr JHP +P which specs at 1350 fps and 466 ft. pounds of energy. That small sub-compact gun was only available in 9mm so I chose to carry the most powerful 9mm factory ammo available. Compare those specs with what you're using, even in 40 S&W and I would bet your ammo specs are lower. My thought is if I have to shoot someone, I am going to use the best ammo to do the job. Of course you must be able to handle the extra felt recoil and flip. It does no good to carry a gun you can't shoot well. My current edc is a Shield 40 and I use CorBon ammo, which is not available in +P. The CorBon 40 specs are 135gr JHP; 1325 fps; 526 ft. pounds of energy. I also use CorBon in my XD45. It specs are 165gr +P JHP; 1250 fps; 573 ft. pounds of energy. It's the foot pounds of energy that produces the stopping power. The more power, the better chance of a one shot stop. I think we would all agree a 30-06 hitting center body mass is going to be a one shot stop, but it is somewhat difficult to CCW with that caliber.

Bob

Bob
 
If you're referring to my question, Bob, I asked because I didn't know. The only thing I knew about +p ammo, is that the manual warned about using +p and +p+ ammo for the longevity of the gun.
 
I personally agree with using the 147gr. bullet in either the Winnchester T-Series or Federal HST, these are my EDC. Seeing those two rounds are very hard to come by (bought a 1000 of each when I found them), I would look at Gold Dot. Check out tnoutdoors9 on YouTube, he tests a lot of different types of 9mm rounds and you can see for yourself what you looking for. I am not a fan of +P or +P+, especially seeing the manual does not support the use of them. Good luck with S&W, there maybe something wrong with barrel, but it looks to me it was not fully chambered. I had a problem with the HST in my .40 Shield, the feed ramp end was razor sharp and was digging in to the shell casing, I fixed that problem with a Dremel.
 
Jyezhan


+P ammo is more powerful. I have compared it with standard SD ammo and find the +P has approx. 40% higher fps and 40% higher ft. lbs of energy. The +P+ is way overpowered and could be dangerous. Smith says any ammunition that meets SAMMI specs is ok to use. All reputable ammo manufacturers make their ammo to those SAMMI specs, including the +P. However the +P+ is usually over SAMMI specs, meaning too powerful. Smith says the use of +P ammo will cause excessive wear. That is true if you were to shoot many hundreds of +P rounds. +P does produce a faster and harder recoil, and this is what causes the excess wear. When the slide reaches the end of the recoil, that jarring stop is what causes the stress and extra wear to the rails and slide stop inside the frame, and frame flex. But since most SD ammo costs in excess of a dollar a round, not too many of us are going to shoot excessive rounds of this ammo. I personally shoot around 4 rounds of each caliber, each trip to the range, just to keep the felt recoil and flip in my memory bank.

The blown out casing that was shown in the OP, was a result of the barrel not supporting the casing. I have shot lots of +P through my guns and have not had one blowout, as shown. It was a defective barrel machining. Using standard target ammo, the ft. pounds of energy are usually around the low 325, and the OP said that this low pressure ammo did not blow out the casing, even though fired through the same barrel.

Bob
 
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These extra power loads have little value. The benefit you get in extra power does not out weigh the potential extra stress on the gun. Two shots to thoracic cavity from regular 9mm will do the job.
 
As robkarrob said I don't plan on shooting thousands of rounds of +P ammo but since the gun is rated for +P I expect it to shoot it safely which is why its going back to the factory. From what I've seen the 124gr +p will have 15-20% more KE than the 147 gr standard. Whether its worth the added recoils is an individual choice. I personally belive that 15-20% more would be helpful if an idiot jacked up on meth is coming at me. My opinion but If all that mattered was 2 shots to the vitals there would be a lot less people carrying 40 and 45's but thats another discussion.
 
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