USMC Retires the M1911's

[Old Arkansawyer]

It is amazing to me that the average soldier in WW11 was 5ft 8in tall
and weighed 144lbs. Those guys were able to carry and use the heavy
1911 45's, M1's and BAR's with all that heavy ammo. Vs today's
soldier that is 2in taller and 40+ lbs heavier but needs the light weight
gear.

 

[Doug M.]

I think you will find that the standard load of gear is now a lot heavier. My understanding from a discussion on another forum was 80-100 pounds of stuff. Some of the was the need for a lot of water in the desert. Whether that impedes performance I leave to the infantry folks.

 

[Sistema1927]

You know, it really is a wonder how the US Military managed to stick with otherwise ordinary mass-produced 1911s, including ones which were produced by non-firearms manufacturers such as Remington-Rand, Singer, and Union Switch & Signal when apparently it takes a hand-fitted, fine-tuned, artisan-crafted 1911 to serve as an adequate duty sidearm...

Perhaps even more puzzling is how the military manages to get by with firearms with triggers which cannot even match one of the aforementioned mass-produced 1911s, let alone whatever tuned triggers folks are referring to in this thread.

All the 1911's I handled in the service had great triggers, once I had been able to clean the pistol. Slide/frame tolerances were loose as a goose, but they just worked. Would I have liked better sights? Sure, but I never had trouble qualifying Expert with it with my much younger eyes.

I would have trusted any of them with my life, but as I said above, that would only be if all the other weapons on my M60 were out of commission.

 

[JohnRippert]

Not surprised or particularly saddened that this has happened. It had a long and distinguished service life over the last century plus. I still have three 1911's myself and at least one of them will be passed down to one of my nieces or their kids. Getting the chance to buy a decommissioned 2nd Marine Raiders M45A1 was a once in a lifetime moment for me. Even more so as my BIL is a retired Marine Colonel.

 

[AJ]

For the rank and file service members the M1911A1 stopped being their primary sidearm in the late 1980's. I last qualified with a M1911A1 while assigned to the Marine Corps Security Force Battalion (PAC) in 1989. I qualified with the M9 in 1990 when assigned to the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing. Only the SOCOM and and a few other special folks had M1911A1's. So 99% of the present Marines have never fired one. Only a few units ever trained with the M1911A1 as an offensive weapon, almost all used it as a defensive weapon.

 

[tmd17]

"A remarkable trigger for a striker fired gun"


If I had a dollar for every time I heard a striker fired fan boy say that, I could probably buy me a Nighthawk! If not a Nighthawk, for sure a Springer. And there is a simple reason why people that cling to their plastic guns have to qualify their statements like that. They know the truth.

 

[waffles]

It is amazing to me that the average soldier in WW11 was 5ft 8in tall
and weighed 144lbs. Those guys were able to carry and use the heavy
1911 45's, M1's and BAR's with all that heavy ammo. Vs today's
soldier that is 2in taller and 40+ lbs heavier but needs the light weight
gear.

Average carry weight has gone up, not down, significantly since WW2. Taking weight savings where you can isn't a bad thing.

 

[LostintheOzone]

For the rank and file service members the M1911A1 stopped being their primary sidearm in the late 1980's. I last qualified with a M1911A1 while assigned to the Marine Corps Security Force Battalion (PAC) in 1989. I qualified with the M9 in 1990 when assigned to the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing. Only the SOCOM and and a few other special folks had M1911A1's. So 99% of the present Marines have never fired one. Only a few units ever trained with the M1911A1 as an offensive weapon, almost all used it as a defensive weapon.

USN didn't require a qualification with a 1911 even for a defensive weapon in 1967. I never touched one in basic. I did however have one on watch and I knew how it functioned. Go figure. We spent one day on the range with a Garand. That really wasn't a qualification, just a familiarization with the rifle.

I attribute this to the Vietnam war and the training short cuts that were present at that time.

 

[cmj8591]

Let's be honest, there's not a lot, if any, difference in reliability between 1911's and any of the plastic guns that are being adopted by different agencies. Any difference in handling is subject to the person using it. In the end, it's about cost. Plastic guns can be manufactured much more cheaply and it's all about low bidder. It was that way in 1911 and one of the factors in adoption of the Colt was that it could be made more cheaply than the other submissions. The 1911 isn't going anywhere. The government will keep them in storage until some unit thinks they fill a need and out they'll come, just like the M14's did in the desert.

 

[AJ]

Let's be honest, there's not a lot, if any, difference in reliability between 1911's and any of the plastic guns that are being adopted by different agencies. Any difference in handling is subject to the person using it. In the end, it's about cost. Plastic guns can be manufactured much more cheaply and it's all about low bidder. It was that way in 1911 and one of the factors in adoption of the Colt was that it could be made more cheaply than the other submissions. The 1911 isn't going anywhere. The government will keep them in storage until some unit thinks they fill a need and out they'll come, just like the M14's did in the desert.

The USMC/USN M1911A1's have been in "War Stores" since the late 1980's. All were sent to NWS Crane, Ind. Once there the pistol's were disassembled, parts checked for wear, reparked, reassembled and put in storage. NWS Crane had hired 50 gunsmiths to help with all this. I know it happened as I ordered and received 50 pistols for an Navy Auxiliary Security Force at NS Long Beach in late '88..

 

[LostintheOzone]

The CMP has sold a bunch in the last few years. I grabbed one. I'm not sure how many are still in storage but they wouldn't be of much use because the military has moved on to the 9x19 cartridge. All of those 1911's are 45 ACP. There won't be any stores of ammo in the military for those pistols and I doubt they want to spend the money for that ammo. That was one of the reasons the army dropped the JCP requirement for 45 ACP. Nothing has changed.

As a side note. An excellent 45 ACP polymer pistol was developed to compete in that program before the army dropped it and you can buy one. I'll let you guess what that is. No it isn't a Sig.

 

[AJ]

The CMP has sold a bunch in the last few years. I'm not sure how many are still in storage but they wouldn't be of much use because the military has moved on to the 9x19 cartridge. All of those 1911's are 45 ACP. There won't be any stores of ammo in the military for those pistols and I doubt they want to spend the money for that ammo. That was one of the reasons the army dropped the JCP requirement for 45 ACP. Nothing has changed.

As a side note. An excellent 45 ACP polymer pistol was developed to compete in that program before the army dropped it and you can buy one.

I am willing to say there is probably a good amount of .45 ACP hardball stored somewhere. If not thing else there is always "Open Purchase". The manufacturers are still making it and are more than willing to take on another government contract.

 

[crazyphil]

Last year I got rid of all of my S&W and Colt revolvers except one.
The semi-auto 1911 Gold Cup shown on the left below.
Some of the favorite leather is the Brill-Persons holster, the belt, both
made by Red Nichols. 2nd from left.
3rd from left is another favorite holster. Heiser's model 728.
For IWB I carry it in a Summer Special by Milt Sparks.
4th from left.
I won't be retiring mine any time soon.
You know the saying: Beware the man who only has one gun,
He probably knows how to use it.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I am willing to say there is probably a good amount of .45 AC hardball stored somewhere. If not thing else there is always "Open Purchase". The manufacturers are still making it and are more than willing to take on another government contract.

It's my understanding that the military has a shelf life of 10 years for small arms ammo. Inspected at 5 years and used after 10 years for training. I don't have any first hand knowledge of that. Given the fact that the last of the 1911's were stored away some time ago I would doubt the military has any ammo in storage. If they do the use-by-date is about to expire, or possibly already did. It's up to each command follow the regs.

New ammo contract. You betcha.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

The Chinese and a few other countries still use them.

 

[AJ]

It's my understanding that the military has a shelf life of 10 years for small arms ammo. Inspected at 5 years and used after 10 years for training. I don't have any first hand knowledge of that. Given the fact that the last of the 1911's were stored away some time ago I would doubt the military has any ammo in storage. If they do the use-by-date is about to expire, or possibly already did. It's up to each command follow the regs.

New ammo contract. You betcha.

If they are just now retiring the last from the Special Ops folks there is a stockpile some place. When I went through MCSF Battalion Schools, between the two school's (Bn Pac & Bn Lant.), we figured roughly the two were using a Million rounds a month. When we would run low our instructors would "Open Purchase" commercial ammo for us to train with. Shot a lot of commercial ammo.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

It's my understanding that the military has a shelf life of 10 years for small arms ammo. Inspected at 5 years and used after 10 years for training. I don't have any first hand knowledge of that. Given the fact that the last of the 1911's were stored away some time ago I would doubt the military has any ammo in storage. If they do the use-by-date is about to expire, or possibly already did. It's up to each command follow the regs.

New ammo contract. You betcha.

When I attended submachine gun instructor school...about 1994...the instructor was retired US Secret Service. He talked about that agent seen carrying an Uzi in the photo when Reagan was shot...he said the ammo in that gun was 1942 Canadian made 9mm. It was properly stored in a temperature and humidity controlled facility and fresh as new.

Ammo will last a very, very long time...if properly stored.

 

[Doug M.]

I seem to have been in error about the ability to use standard capacity magazines in WA. I thought I had seen that in some research at work, but now cannot find it. I will have to look again when I am in the office.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I seem to have been in error about the ability to use standard capacity magazines in WA. I thought I had seen that in some research at work, but now cannot find it. I will have to look again when I am in the office.

You can if you owned them before 7/1/22.

You haven't been able to buy a magazine over 10 rds in this state for a year now. I still have some 15 rd mags and use them. I've owned those for about 6 years. I can't sell them in this state however.

I'm not sure what a standard capacity magazine is. My HK 45 uses a 10 rd mag which is OEM. I guess that would a standard magazine for that pistol.

 

[AJ]

I seem to have been in error about the ability to use standard capacity magazines in WA. I thought I had seen that in some research at work, but now cannot find it. I will have to look again when I am in the office.

You can if you owned them before 7/1/22.

You haven't been able to buy a magazine over 10 rds in this state for a year now. I still have some 15 rd mags and use them. I've owned those for about 6 years. I can't sell them in this state however.

I'm not sure what a standard capacity magazine is. My HK 45 uses a 10 rd mag which is OEM. I guess that would a standard magazine for that pistol.

Glad that I live in a state with no mag restrictions. Waiting to see how the new concealed carry law works out. Not giving up my permit!