Value of early Model 18's?

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A friend was given his father's minty vintage .357 Combat Magnum 4" Model 19. He has asked me to find a .22 to match it, which would be the Model 18. I believe I'm looking for a Model 18-1, -2, -3, circa 1959-69. What should I expect to pay for an 18-1, -2, -3 with diamond magnas, in box with tools and papers, and barely a drag line?
 
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First finding one as you describe is going to be very very difficult. Secondly, you are probably going to have to pay north of $700 for it.
 
Tom - I've picked up several in the last year at $400 to $600. Sadly no boxes. Saw one at the Casa Grande gun show last Saturday for $700 with wrong grips.
Leo
 
Tom, I'm sure you are aware and you should make your friend aware, the 18 will not be a true "match" for the 19. The 19 has a heavy shrouded barrel with wide rib and beefed up, heat treated frame, whereas the 18 has a tapered un shrouded barrel with a narrow rib and slightly lighter frame. The heft and balance will not be the same on the two guns as long as he knows that. The only thing they will have in common is a 4" barrel. Smith never made a heavy barrel .22LR. Before I get flamed, yes they did make the full underlug 17s, but that's a whole different gun.
 
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A Model 18-1 is going to go for a lot more than $700 in the condition you have indicated. Very hard to find. The -2 and -3 are much more common and $ 700 is about right. Good luck on the hunt, that's what makes it fun!
 
Gila Bender,
I just bought a minty (99.9%) 6” S&W Model 17-3 for $775. Target hammer & trigger no box or tools. I bought it to match my 3T 4” Model 19-3. With-box would have put it out of my price range. It is a God-awful lot of money to spend on a 40-year old revolver, but that is what it costs here in San Diego. And when I shot it I no longer cared how much it cost! What a sweetheart to shoot!
Recondition to your friend; look for a “nice” Model 17 or 18 to hold him over until you find his $1,000 grail gun. In the mean time SHOOT the “nice” gun and enjoy it! Be magnanimous; tell him that once you find his grail gun that you will buy the “nice” one off of him. These things are sweet! Life is too short not to shoot a good S&W .22 LR revolver!

Frank
 
Tom- if your buddy wants a real close .22 match for the model 19, he can get a 4" model 53 with the .22lr cylinder. With box and everything for one of those you are in the $1000-$1500 range.

pix456939602.jpg
 
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Bill:
What's the story on that 5-Screw in the back ?
A Patridge FS on a Combat Masterpiece? Kinda Cool...

Somebody's project or factory ?
 
The Model 53 is the closest thing to a Model 19 profile fitted with a 22lr cylinder,
Problem is it has a slightly larger 22 mag bore.

My "Grail" gun is a 4" K22 with Model19 underlug barrel .

Bill that early 4" patridge CM makes me drool everytime.
I sometimes think about having Bowen make one up for me from an early Taper barrel Pre "Heavy" Masterpiece.
 
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Tom,

Let's get specific here; is he looking for a balance and heft match or evolutionary match or a 'looks' match?

Balance and heft match:
My Pre mod 18 and 18-4 weigh 2 lbs 3.2 ozs. with TH,TT & TG.
My Mod 19-1 wieghs 2 lbs 3 ozs. with TH,TT & TG. Loading both will get them closer together or give the edge to the 19.
So they are almost exactly the same weight even though they have different style barrels. The 19 carries a little more heft out front but not noticeably much different to me.

Evolutionary match:
If he has a Pre Model 19 he'll need a Pre Mod 18 and they will match by both having 5 screw frames, diamond stocks, etc. If he has a Model 19 no dash he'll need a Mod 18 no dash and they'll both have 4 screw frames. Etc, etc.

Looks match:

As was said there is no exact match produced by Smith. I installed a Mod 53 4" barrel and Mod 48 .22 Mag cylinder in another 18 for an exact match to my 19. The .22 Mag rollmark on the 53 barrel was then correct. However I noticed no accuracy loss when I used my 22 LR cylinder.
The 4" Model 53 would look identical. But it would in itself be an expensive option especially with a .22 LR cylinder. And considerably outwiegh the 19. The HB 18 would not only still not match except for barrel contour but would also up the Mod 18 weight a little.
He can add TH, TT & TG to match.
He can achieve a perfect looks match with an .22 Combat Masterpiece and a .38 Combat Masterpiece.
 
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Tom,

Let's get specific here; is he looking for a balance and heft match or evolutionary match or a 'looks' match?

Balance and heft match:
My Pre mod 18 and 18-4 weigh 2 lbs 3.2 ozs. with TH,TT & TG.
My Mod 19-1 wieghs 2 lbs 3 ozs. with TH,TT & TG. Loading both will get them closer together or give the edge to the 19.
So they are almost exactly the same weight even though they have different style barrels. The 19 carries a little more heft out front but not noticeably much different to me.

Evolutionary match:
If he has a Pre Model 19 he'll need a Pre Mod 18 and they will match by both having 5 screw frames, diamond stocks, etc. If he has a Model 19 no dash he'll need a Mod 18 no dash and they'll both have 4 screw frames. Etc, etc.

Looks match:

As was said there is no exact match produced by Smith. I installed a Mod 53 4" barrel and Mod 48 .22 Mag cylinder in another 18 for an exact match to my 19. The .22 Mag rollmark on the 53 barrel was then correct. However I noticed no accuracy loss when I used my 22 LR cylinder.
The 4" Model 53 would look identical. But it would in itself be an expensive option especially with a .22 LR cylinder. And considerably outwiegh the 19. The HB 18 would not only still not match except for barrel contour but would also up the Mod 18 weight a little.
He can add TH, TT & TG to match.
He can achieve a perfect looks match with an .22 Combat Masterpiece and a .38 Combat Masterpiece.

All of the posts and suggestions have been very helpful, thank you. I haven't seen the Model 19 yet to determine vintage and, from the way he spoke, I now assume that he wants a "balance and heft match." He is not a collecter of these things, but enjoys shooting a 4" model 629 and 4" 686. If the Model 19 were mine, I'd go with period or evolutionary match. I'm going to poke around the Crossroads show this weekend when I can take time away from our tables. Thanks again, everyone.
 
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Tom.
I had these at the Kingman gunshow 2 weekends back. I had 2X 5 screws and 2X 4 screws sitting on a table priced at $600 each. They have some wear and no box or tools. They drew very little attention.
I made an offer to Leo on one of them and put a little squeeze on him. I got some blood, some turnip juice and a little money out of him. He finally bought one of them. The rest of them are now sitting in a bucket out in the garage here in Yuma.
They will be displayed for sale again at the Jan 2012 Yuma gun show.

http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y325/RdrBill




/K224inch022.jpg

Bill@Yuma

IN A BUCKET??!!
 
"Hondo 44 said " Evolutionary match: If he has a Pre Model 19 he'll need a Pre Mod 18 and they will match by both having 5 screw frames.

Jim, I am pretty sure there were no 5 screw Combat Magnums (Pre 19's) only 4 screw guns up until the dash 2
which began the 3 screw guns.

One more route to make a 22lr Model 19 look alike would be to remove the extra barrel material from a 17-6 full underlug.

Making a 22lr is not impossable but matching a model 15 and 18 is the easiest and cheapest solution.
 
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I have a pre 18 and a 67-1.I call it "black and white" and
close enouhg.Both shoot great!
 
"Hondo 44 said " Evolutionary match: If he has a Pre Model 19 he'll need a Pre Mod 18 and they will match by both having 5 screw frames.

Jim, I am pretty sure there were no 5 screw Combat Magnums (Pre 19's) only 4 screw guns up until the dash 2
which began the 3 screw guns.

One more route to make a 22lr Model 19 look alike would be to remove the extra barrel material from a 17-6 full underlug.

Engine49guy,
You are so right on the Mod 19 5 screw, even though 1st made in 1955 they started as 4 screw frames. Thanks for correcting me! That crossed my mind when I wrote it and meant to double check it but of course I forgot.

And removing part of the lug from a 17-6 is a clever solution!! It will have the heavy barrel contour already. The part of the shroud that's left will need a little reshaping on the sides to match the 19, but that's all hugely less trouble than a barrel change but would have to be reblued.
 
One more route to make a 22lr Model 19 look alike would be to remove the extra barrel material from a 17-6 full underlug.

That would help, but the cylinder would still be too short. A Model 53 really is a .22 caliber Model 19 because the .22 Jet is just a .357 cartridge necked down to .22 caliber. Same length cylinder, same under lug, same appearance.
 
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