Variations in 9MM Ammo Performance

[S/W - Lifer]

stiab's great post on .38 Super performance brought this to mind. Anyone recall using Canadian WWll 9mm ammo that came in compact 64 round boxes? The brass was quite heavy walled and the performance of the cartridges was pretty amazing.

I recall using some of this in my Model 39-2 on a shoot in the Florida boonies. I hung a bullseye target on a heavy-duty palm tree and had at it. When I was done I found the bullets had gone completely through the tree. I won't mention the tree diameter because I doubt any reasonable person would believe it. Who ever loaded that stuff had winning the war in mind, not lawyers and SAAMI specs. I prized that brass and used it in defense loads as it really gripped and supported Sierra's 115 gr. hollow cavity bullets that were the hot lick of the day.

Ever used and Israeli milspec 9mm? Now there is another load worth taking note of. I used the Uzi SMG quite a bit but always loaded with conventional U.S. made ammo. The Uzi made a pretty conventional popping sound with standard ammo, and I always wondered what the big deal was with the Uzi, which seemed nothing more than a big, heavy pistol. When the day came to shoot Israeli military type ammo, things took a big turn for the better. Pop-pop-pop turned into ripping bursts and really reduced stoppages. Then I saw what real ammo could do for an Uzi.

Anyone else noticed differences in 9mm ammo? Even better, anyone chrono any 9mm military ammo? Not that I'm picking on the ammo makers. War is war and business is business, and there are reasons they do what they do.

Call it nostalgia, but I sure miss that Canadian 9mm.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

stiab's great post on .38 Super performance brought this to mind. Anyone recall using Canadian WWll 9mm ammo that came in compact 64 round boxes? The brass was quite heavy walled and the performance of the cartridges was pretty amazing.

I recall using some of this in my Model 39-2 on a shoot in the Florida boonies. I hung a bullseye target on a heavy-duty palm tree and had at it. When I was done I found the bullets had gone completely through the tree. I won't mention the tree diameter because I doubt any reasonable person would believe it. Who ever loaded that stuff had winning the war in mind, not lawyers and SAAMI specs. I prized that brass and used it in defense loads as it really gripped and supported Sierra's 115 gr. hollow cavity bullets that were the hot lick of the day.

Ever used and Israeli milspec 9mm? Now there is another load worth taking note of. I used the Uzi SMG quite a bit but always loaded with conventional U.S. made ammo. The Uzi made a pretty conventional popping sound with standard ammo, and I always wondered what the big deal was with the Uzi, which seemed nothing more than a big, heavy pistol. When the day came to shoot Israeli military type ammo, things took a big turn for the better. Pop-pop-pop turned into ripping bursts and really reduced stoppages. Then I saw what real ammo could do for an Uzi.

Anyone else noticed differences in 9mm ammo? Even better, anyone chrono any 9mm military ammo? Not that I'm picking on the ammo makers. War is war and business is business, and there are reasons they do what they do.

Call it nostalgia, but I sure miss that Canadian 9mm.

 

[Andy Taylor]

A lot of military 9mm was loaded for sub-machine guns, and will greatly acclerate wear on pistols. That is why the US military had slide cracking issues with the Beretta M9 shortly after it was adopted. The ammo was to hot.
That being said I really enjoyed putting a .30cal ammo can full of British WWII 9mm ammo through my Hi-Power a while back.

 

[stiab]

S/W Lifer, here is a little bit of info. I own this box of Winchester smg 9mm ammo but did not have a gun I thought suitable to test it in. My friend and fellow S&W forum member Nframe volunteered to test it in his Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8" barrel with 9mm cylinder. Chris reports that ten feet from the chrono they averaged 1240 fps, and by weight the bullets appeared to be 115 grain.

For comparison purposes, I have tested other 115gr FMJ rounds from a 4.05" semi-auto barrel with average velocity in fps as follows: Federal American Eagle 1129, Remington 1139, CCI Brass 1155, Win White Box 1163, Federal +P+ 1212, Winchester +P+ 1263, and Remington +P+ 1324.

I'm guessing all the military and smg variations over the years cover a wide spectrum of performance, and the one box shown above may or may not be representative.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

Thank you, stiab. I see you are up to your usual excellent performance. I appreciate the information.

Although it has pretty well died out now, there used to be a lot of speculation about 9mm sub-machine gun ammo. Some thought it would wreck a pistol while others point out that is not the case. How much of this is accurate, rumor or myth I don't know. I can say that in both my Model 39 and the Uzi I used that military 9mm was great stuff.

 

[38-44HD45]

I've never had a chance to shoot any of the Canadian SMG ammo, but I have shot some Israeli 9mm ball, as well as a BUNCH of Federal NATO-spec 124s. It's been years, but as I recall, the Israeli stuff I chronoed was 124gr., and was only a little hotter than Federal NATO-spec, which runs at about 1220-1240 fps. through my Hi-Powers, which seem to get a little more velocity than most barrels of the same length. I believe I was getting ca 1250fps. from the Israeli ammo. I've heard folks talk about the hot Canadian SMG ammo for years, but have never seen any.

 

[n4zov]

Anyone recall using Canadian WWll 9mm ammo that came in compact 64 round boxes?

Yep, I bought a bunch of it from Marshal Hyde in Port Huron, Michigan if memory serves. That would have been in the early '60's, and I also fired it in a Model 39. Good ammo especially for the price but I don't remember much about it except that it was reliable and cheap. Wish I had a box car load right now.

 

[Hoptob]

Stiab,

What is Remington +P+ 9mm ammo? I can't find any reference to it on Remington web site. 1324 fps out of 4" bbl sounds pretty good!

Mike

 

[RON in PA]

A few years back there was available on the surplus market 9mm ammo from Sweden that came in a wooden box and was packed in special stripper clips used to feed the Swedish army submachine magazines. According to web posters from Sweden, this hot ammo was very hard on their standard issue Glock 17s, causing accelerated wear. One factor in this was the copper coated hard steel jacketed bullets.

 

[stiab]

Hoptop, I agree, it is the hottest 9mm I have experienced yet. Here is a pic showing end label of the Remington box. Not sure if it is still in production or not...

 

[BreakerDan]

Stiab, I agree. The hottest 9mm load I ever ran was the Remington 9+P+ 115 gr load from a Browning HP. It went about 1250 fps for me and was extremely accurate. Most of the current 115-124 loads I used were at 1100-1150fps. Never tried any 147s except for ball. Seemed more like a 38 with them.

 

[stiab]

Never tried any 147s except for ball.

BreakerDan, I've tried a couple 147 grainers. The Federal Hydra-Shoks standard pressure averaged 948 fps, while the Corbon +P's did 1061.

The Hydra-Shoks in 147 grain were out performed from an energy perspective by the 135 grain Hydra-Shoks (1040 fps avg velocity), with 147 grain energy at 293 and the 135 grain at 324.