Veteran's Stance: Revolvers over Semi-Auto's

[Sartori42]

I'm also a veteran, but don't know if that is important to this discussion. One thing a lot of people seem to ignore is the psychological factors that will be present in an armed encounter. If/when you pull out that 686, those aggressors are likely to notice that it isn't a standard 9mm Glock pointing at them. The first round out of your. 357 is going to make most attackers wet their pants and reevaluate their decision to cause you trouble. And, in the end, all you really want is to end their attack. I see no reason to doubt your defense plan or reasoning.

 

[Riflemann]

I carry a 642CT all the time, a 4" 686 sometimes, and a FS M&P40 sometimes. I like the extra punch that my 686 carries. So far never needed to draw a gun and I would like to go the rest of my life without drawing one also. I am old school, I like my wheel guns.
P.S. I just sold my 40Shield about a month ago, just did not shoot real good with it.

 

[Arik]

Thank you for your service.

You are quite correct to distinguish between appropriate equipment for combat vs. law enforcement vs. self defense. We can never be fully prepared for every situation, but need to assess the most likely equipment needs and act accordingly.

Someone will always throw in the old "but what if you are attacked by 8 assailants when carrying only a 7-shot revolver?" line as the final word in favor of hi-caps autos. Funny, that argument is never used to discourage use of an 8-shot 1911, nor are the stakes upped to 20 assailants to make a Glock 17 inadequate. There may be scenarios where a citizen minding his/her own business will have to deal with 8 assailants solo. If you find yourself in one of those, I suspect that whatever handgun you are carrying, you will wish you had your M4, body armor and backup. I also suspect you have sense enough to realize that it is not feasible to equip yourself that way every time you make a run to the grocery store, because the likelihood of one of those situations presenting itself is infinitesimal.

During my law enforcement career my assignment, the shift I was working and even the season of the year affected my equipment decisions, to the extent they were mine to make. The totality of my circumstances (mine, not anyone else's) still dictates my equipment choices.

It is interesting, but not entirely reasonable, to apply statistics from shooting incidents involving multiple police officers to personal defense situations for an individual citizen, who often has an option not available to LEOs - avoidance or flight. Running doesn't sound macho, but it may be the best option for avoiding not only death or injury, but also unpleasant interaction with a grand jury.

I'm not as fast, limber or strong as I was when I was on the job, and admit I fire far fewer practice rounds each month, but even then I would not have figured my odds of surviving an encounter with 8 armed opponents were very good, no matter what Mel Gibson or Bruce Willis can do on screen. If you are confident with what may be the best .357 Mag on the market today (especially with a quality 9mm in reserve) then you are better off than the fellow with the 17-shot primary weapon who is constantly worrying about whether he brought enough magazines or whether he should have bought the ammo with the extra 50 fps of velocity. But you knew that.

It's funny you mention 8 assailants and 7 shots. While that's not the case here....here is what happened in my city a few years ago.

Guy and his girlfriend walking home on Friday night (both are Asian. ..this is important) they walk by some guys who have had to much to drink and were showing of feeds of strength to each other. They see these two and start to follow them and call them derogatory names. At one point the 5 of them surround this guy and his girlfriend and the ringleader want to fight. He charges in with both fist swinging not knowing the Asian guy is packing a 38 J frame. He takes 5 shot from the 38 and now the Asian guy is out of ammo and there is still 4 guys standing around him. Luckily they hear sirens and take off

 

[just for fun]

My first choice for CC. was based on Very scientific research! As a child of the 50's, I grew up reading the Sunday Funny Paper and Dick Tracy ALWAYS carried a 38 snub nose. Nuf said! My first handgun was a S&W Model 36, with a square frame ( felt better then and still does).
Carried it in a Hunter holster. No Sir, nothing but the best, and what I could afford, for my little Smith!
Along came the 70's and all the wonder 9's. HAD to have one! Once again it was the ole tried and true Lay-a-Way program and too many months I had a Smith Model39-2 for my very own. Couldn't afford to shoot it very often, but it sure did get cleaned a lot!
I was on cloud 9 till that thing in Miami went down. I feared I was falling into the very hubs of hell and would consider a glock as my next must have!
Decided and bought a Kimber 45 Combat Carry and for years all was right with the world. Bought into my own hype and knew anything hit with a 45-turn out the lights, game over!
Must have been about 5 years ago that I really got tired of dressing around a handgun. Everything I owned looked "baggie"!!
So what to buy next! After very little soul searching I'm back to carrying the same Smith J frame I bought in 68 although these days it rides in a much better holster! As for a carry load- From Speer #8 reloading manual. 158 LHPSWC over lots of 2400.

 

[Muley Gil]

I spent three years in Afghanistan. However, that was 30 years after having worn the Eagle, Globe and Anchor. My time in the sandbox was as a civilian police advisor.

I carried a M9 and a M4, but never had to use either one. Since I wasn't infantry over there, I would have been happier carrying a S&W M625 in .45 ACP and a Springfield Armory SOCCOM .308.

 

[shawn mccarver]

So I'm sure there are other threads to this affect, so if this is stupid of me, feel free to talk smack, I've got thick skin.

I own a .357 Mag Smith, and a Ruger SR9 (along with other firearms, but these are the two I will focus on). During the winter months I always conceal carry my 686 4" barrel in a cross draw holster. I always chose it to conceal carry over my SR9, which stays in the glove box of the car with some extra mags.

In the Summer I Carry an LC9, but I digress.

What I pose to you gentlemen is, and what I catch a lot of flak about from my buddies, Why carry 7 rounds of .357 Mag, when you could carry 17+1 of 9mm? Now I have my reasons, I feel the .357 Mag is a much more destructive round in terms of energy dispersed on target than 9mm.

Now about my buddies that totally dissagree, they have their points as well. I am in the Army, so we have all deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq or both. Their stance is, if a large caliber revolver really is better in a close quarters/self defense engagement, why wouldn't Special Forces, Delta, Rangers, Seals, (fill in SOF component of your choice), use them on a more regular basis?

It is a good point. As the old adage goes: "The man who wins the gun fight is usually the one with one more round in his magazine".

My side is, I am most likely when stateside to encounter a much different type of engagement. I am not going to have the possibility of an extended engagement under attack by Taliban fighters, as one would in Afghanistan.

Here in the US, I am most likely going to be in a self defense situation where the Police will be showing up shortly thereafter, and the assailants don't want to stick around just to kill me.

Anyhow, thought I would open this up to any Veterans, or anyone, on here who think like me. (Thats why I posted it to the Revolvers section of the forums)

Well, you are obviously correct. There is nothing at all wrong with a "medium frame 6 (or 7) shot 38 Special or .357 Magnum for the scenario you mention.

So, why do many people use something like a Glock 19 or M&P 9? Well, I think having extra ammo does not hurt, and it is hard to find a weapon that has such a power/capacity to size ratio as does a 15 shot Glock 19.

Here is a photo of a G19 with a J frame. That is 15 shots versus 5. Again, nothing wrong with a revolver, but for the same space, I will take the 15 shot firearm.

 

[one eye joe]

So I'm sure there are other threads to this affect, so if this is stupid of me, feel free to talk smack, I've got thick skin.

I own a .357 Mag Smith, and a Ruger SR9 (along with other firearms, but these are the two I will focus on). During the winter months I always conceal carry my 686 4" barrel in a cross draw holster. I always chose it to conceal carry over my SR9, which stays in the glove box of the car with some extra mags.

In the Summer I Carry an LC9, but I digress.

What I pose to you gentlemen is, and what I catch a lot of flak about from my buddies, Why carry 7 rounds of .357 Mag, when you could carry 17+1 of 9mm? Now I have my reasons, I feel the .357 Mag is a much more destructive round in terms of energy dispersed on target than 9mm.

Now about my buddies that totally dissagree, they have their points as well. I am in the Army, so we have all deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq or both. Their stance is, if a large caliber revolver really is better in a close quarters/self defense engagement, why wouldn't Special Forces, Delta, Rangers, Seals, (fill in SOF component of your choice), use them on a more regular basis?

It is a good point. As the old adage goes: "The man who wins the gun fight is usually the one with one more round in his magazine".

My side is, I am most likely when stateside to encounter a much different type of engagement. I am not going to have the possibility of an extended engagement under attack by Taliban fighters, as one would in Afghanistan.

Here in the US, I am most likely going to be in a self defense situation where the Police will be showing up shortly thereafter, and the assailants don't want to stick around just to kill me.

Anyhow, thought I would open this up to any Veterans, or anyone, on here who think like me. (Thats why I posted it to the Revolvers section of the forums)

FIRST OFF, VETERAN TO VETERAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, BROTHER. SECONDLY, IMHO,YOUR THINKING IS RIGHT ON THE MONEY ! ! ! THIRD, MANY OF THE ELITE FORCES YOU HAVE MENTIONED--WHO ARE GIVEN THE OPTION OF CHOICE OF WEAPON--HAVE MOVED FROM THE 9MM BERETTA TO THE 1911, OR ANOTHER WEAPON THAT IS CHAMBERED IN .45 ACP, THE OLD STANDBY MILITARY CARTRIDGE THAT SERVED US WELL FOR DECADES…..

YOU RIGHTLY IDENTIFY THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT, AND LIFE IN THE SANDBOX. THE ARMY'S GOAL AND YOUR GOAL IN A CIVILIAN FIREFIGHT ARE DIFFERENT. WHILE THE ARMY MAY BE CONTENT WTH WOUNDING THE ENEMY, THUS TAKING MAYBE TWO PEOPLE OUT OF THE FIGHT--INSTEAD OF JUST ONE DEAD BAD GUY, OR DEFENDING A POSITION AGAINST AN ATTACK, BY A NUMERICALLY SUPERIOR FORCE, WITH A PISTOL IN A LAST DITCH EFFORT--YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH ELIMINATING THE THREAT--BY KILLING OR SEVERELY INCAPACITATING YOUR ASSAILANT(S) AND ESCAPING THE SITUATION OR KILLING INTRUDERS IN A HOME INVASION BEFORE THEY HARM YOU OR YOUR FAMILY…..

YOU ARE USING A PROVEN CARTRIDGE FOR SELF DEFENSE--THE .357 MAG. W/O BRINGING OUT THE 9MM TROLLS, LET ME SAY THAT IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF STORIES THAT I READ OF BAD GUYS BEING SHOT MULTIPLE TIMES AND CONTINUING ON TO SLASH SOMEONE'S THROAT, ETC--THEY ARE SHOT REPEATEDLY BY A 9MM. THE US MILITARY WAS ROCKED TO SLEEP BY NATO TO ADOPT THE 9MM, FOR UNIFORMITY OF AMMO ISSUES, (LIKE THEY WERE EVER GOING TO HELP SUPPLY US) AND WERE LURED BY THE INCREASED ROUND COUNT OF THE BERETTA, OVER THE 1911. I WOULD RATHER HAVE 1/2 THE ROUND COUNT OF .45ACP THAN TWICE THE AMOUNT OF 9MM BALL AMMO.THE ODDS OF YOU NEEDING MORE THAN 7 ROUNDS OF AMMO IN A CIVILIAN SD/HD ENCOUNTER ARE
SLIM, ACCORDING TO STATISTICAL DATA THAT IS READILY AVAILABLE. TO ENSURE YOUR SAFETY, YOU COULD CARRY A COUPLE OF SPEEDLOADERS OR SPEED STRIPS, THAT WOULD GIVE YOU 21 ROUNDS OF AMMO. IF THAT DOESN'T SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM, YOU NEED TO CALL FOR A FAST FLYER OR FOR DUSTOFF…..

I HEAR WHAT YOUR COMRADES ARE SAYING, HOWEVER. WHEN I RETURNED FROM THE 'NAM, AFTER CARRYING A 1911 AS BACK UP TO MY M-16 FOR A YEAR, I GRAVITATED TO CARRYING MY OLD FRIEND FOR S/D--A FULL SIZE COLT 1911. I CARRIED IT COCKED AND LOCKED, WITH 3 EXTENDED 10 ROUND MAGS FULL OF JHP, ONE IN THE GUN-TWO ON MY BELT, FOR A TOTAL OF 31 ROUNDS. IT WAS JUST A CARRYOVER OF MY MILITARY EXPERIENCE. I DID THIS FOR OVER 30 YEARS. OVERKILL ? ? ? I WOULD SAY SO. DID I FEEL SAFE ? ? ? ABSOLUTELY ! ! ! (IN MY OLD AGE I NOW CARRY A 2 1/2" 686+ IN A CROSS DRAW, AND A 642 IN MY POCKET--FOR A NY RELOAD, ALONG WITH 2 SPEED STRIPS. I STILL FEEL SAFE--AND THIS IS STILL STATISTICALLY OVERKILL. ANOTHER 'NAM HABIT CARRIED OVER--YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH AMMO.….

IMHO, YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING. STICK TO YOUR GUNS--NO PUN INTENDED. CARRY WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH. SPECIAL FORCES COLONEL ARTHUR "BULL" SIMONS CARRIED HIS .357 COLT PYTHON, IN A SHOULDER HOLSTER, WHEN HE LED THE CHOPPER RAID ON THE SON TAY POW CAMP, OVER THE FENCE IN NORTH VIETNAM, IN 1970. THE RAID DID NOT ACHIEVE IT'S OBJECTIVE DUE TO FAULTY INTELLIGENCE. THE PRISONERS HAD BEEN MOVED TO A LOCATION 15 MILES AWAY, SOME MONTHS BEFORE THE RAID. BULL SIMONS DID KILL ONE NVA, CLOSE UP AND PERSONAL, WITH HIS PYTHON DURING THE SKIRMISH…..

 

[Rick_A]

I carry one of these when practical:

20140723_111359 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

20140914_093831 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

This one when those are not:

20141225_141746 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

...and this is always in backup mode:

20140721_092358 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

They all have pros/cons but in the end it's what I feel like lugging around that particular day. None leave me feeling wanting.

 

[GB]

I was a LEO or armed security for nearly 2 decades. I drew my service weapon many times and was lucky enough to never have to drop the hammer(even though I could have done so, legally). I never intentionally went into a situation where I knew I might have to shoot armed only with my sidearm. That is what my shotgun was for (that was before rifles were common in squad cars) Also, if I was headed in trouble, I brought as many friends as I could call on the radio and they brought guns too! My world had changed. I am an old retired guy. I travel, I go into the woods and into semi-large metro areas and I usually travel armed. In both of those places there are things that take exception to my occupation of their turf, or wish to deprive my of what is mine. Be it my cooler of supplies and or fish or my billfold and truck. I still try to pay attention to what is going on around me. My carry gun is there, not to dispute occupancy or property ownership, but to allow myself the means and opportunity to exit the area (with great haste, if possible).

Carry what works for you and practice with it. Most of all pay attention! But as a veteran of the current unpleasantness you are used to that. GB

 

[629shooter]

There is nothing wrong with carrying a revolver. As long as you have confidence in it, everything else doesn't matter. The same is true when it comes to service calibers.

 

[Joe Kent]

One thing that seems to be general in this thread is the apparent age of those responding. Most of us are probably graying{if we still have hair}or at least no longer in our youth. We also like to carry what we are use too and for that matter comfortable with. Myself, I shift between several handguns that I started carrying when I first put on a blue uniform, a Model 19, a Model 40, a Browning Hi-Power, and a Colt Government 1911. Today , 45 years later, I still rely on those ,or their more modern copies. While it may not make sense to others, I do alter my "load" to fit the area that I am going into. Recently ,with all the strife in St. Louis, when visiting a close friend's gun shop, close to the area of trouble ,I switched from my model 681 snub back to my Browning Hi-Power ,backed up by my 642. Why, just because it "felt" better to have it that way. In a sense, one should always be prepared, because trouble can happen at any time. As an example, a friend's brother who lived in a central Il. college town in a very nice neighborhood, went on a speed run to a neighborhood corner store to pick up a quart of milk, walked into an armed robbery in progress and ended up being forced to lay on the floor with the clerk and was executed by the robber. At the time Il. had no ccw. You never know when trouble will hit, so be prepared at all times. Carry what you are most capable of having and using effectively and most important , practice, practice, and practice some more, and always be aware around you. All my best, Joe.

 

[Comrad]

Where do some of you guys live, Dodge City? I live in NJ and travel in some of the nastiest cities in the country, Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Atlantic City and carry a Casexx pen knife, not for defense but to open packages and I have never had a problem. I find if you mind your own business and act like you belong there, nobody will bother you.

 

[BE Mike]

So I'm sure there are other threads to this affect, so if this is stupid of me, feel free to talk smack, I've got thick skin.

I own a .357 Mag Smith, and a Ruger SR9 (along with other firearms, but these are the two I will focus on). During the winter months I always conceal carry my 686 4" barrel in a cross draw holster. I always chose it to conceal carry over my SR9, which stays in the glove box of the car with some extra mags.

In the Summer I Carry an LC9, but I digress.

What I pose to you gentlemen is, and what I catch a lot of flak about from my buddies, Why carry 7 rounds of .357 Mag, when you could carry 17+1 of 9mm? Now I have my reasons, I feel the .357 Mag is a much more destructive round in terms of energy dispersed on target than 9mm.

Now about my buddies that totally dissagree, they have their points as well. I am in the Army, so we have all deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq or both. Their stance is, if a large caliber revolver really is better in a close quarters/self defense engagement, why wouldn't Special Forces, Delta, Rangers, Seals, (fill in SOF component of your choice), use them on a more regular basis?

It is a good point. As the old adage goes: "The man who wins the gun fight is usually the one with one more round in his magazine".

My side is, I am most likely when stateside to encounter a much different type of engagement. I am not going to have the possibility of an extended engagement under attack by Taliban fighters, as one would in Afghanistan.

Here in the US, I am most likely going to be in a self defense situation where the Police will be showing up shortly thereafter, and the assailants don't want to stick around just to kill me.

Anyhow, thought I would open this up to any Veterans, or anyone, on here who think like me. (Thats why I posted it to the Revolvers section of the forums)

I agree with you. Combat and personal defense situations in civilian life are definitely two different animals. Understandably, many active duty military and veterans confuse the two because they can only relate to combat. The .357 mag. has proven itself as a top notch self-defense round. If you can accurately shoot your revolver in a high stress situation, it should perform adequately in most instances.

 

[cmj8591]

Shot placement is king! 19 misses with your wonder 9, 6 misses with your 3 1/2" registered magnum, 1 miss with your RPG will never equal 1 hit from your .22! Carry what you can shoot best and what your are most likely to take with you when you leave home. You can make up for a lot of ballistic shortcomings with stealth and surprise. Your job as a civilian is to be a good witness until the situation has degenerated to the point that deadly force is necessary. At that point, you will win with surprise against an opponent who is not expecting resistance. If you find yourself in the middle of a Pachino/DeNero, "Heat" type bank robbery, lay down on the floor as instructed and hope that no one sees your carry gun printing. If you find yourself regularly being confronted by multiple assailants that overwhelm your carry choice and you are not presently deployed to Afghanistan, you may want to reassess your life style!

 

[Rangerpat]

I agree with your reasoning robpetry84 and as others have said, "stick to your guns,"do what works best for you and carry with confidence.
While in the service I carried a 1911 .45acp for a year, I loved the pistol so much that I bought one when I got out of the military.
Forty-three years later my choice of carry is a .357 J-frame five shot revolver with one speed strip. My needs have changed over the years, and the convenience of carrying a lightweight revolver (over a boat anchor) outweighs carrying the semi auto. I always have the J-frame on me, and keep the 1911 lock and loaded in my home for protection.
I'm not trying to bash people that carry high capacity pistols but some of them have the "spray and pray" concept of shooting.
Thanks for your service and to all the other veterans who have posted on this thread.

 

[Collo Rosso]

I cannot CC during work hours but I'm never far from one of my handguns, revolver or semi-auto. After work I have a LCP to slip in my pocket for those "milk runs". To me I'm most likely to need a pistol then. I look at CC as carry something, it will be better than throwing a rock.

 

[Voyager28]

I am a combat veteran and it just seems to me that the needs of a soldier in a combat zone are vastly different than the needs for SD. I can't recall ever reading about a SD situation where 17+ rounds were needed. I've never read of a extended "Fire Fight" that was a SD situation. If it is your choice to carry that way, well, have at it. You certainly have the right to do so. What I am talking about is "need" rather than "want".

Bob

 

[BAM-BAM]

Lots of good comments; some more thoughts:
A.
686 = 6/7 rounds of 125 grain jacked hollow points

1911 = 8-9 rounds of 185-200 gr jacked hollow points

Glock 19 in the middle east = 15-16 rounds of FMJ

B.

Aren't 1911s still popular with the special forces operators?

C.

Today;back home your only responsibility is to protect yourself (and your family) not your squad or platoon in a firefight.

D.

No "suppressive fire" in the US. LOL

For me............

I generally carry a 3913 (7+1) and a spare magazine or a 3" 66 when woods bumming...... with a couple of speedloaders...

While I've been known carry a hi-cap compact 9mm (Smith 6906 12+1 or Beretta 92C 13+1) and a spare mag ( 15-17 rounds) if I really thought I was going to need all those bullets when I left the house I'd either;
1. stay home or
2. opt for a AR pattern long gun.

Glocks work ....... most buy them because, the police carry them .... or they watch (and believe) too many movies. LOL

 

[BudMan5]

I am a retired Infantry senior NCO and also a retired police officer. I went to VN in 1966 and stayed until 1968, came home, became a cop and 18 years later I was chief of a small town department. I was thoroughly bored, so I paid two years military time into the State pension fund, retired early and went back on active duty with the Army at age 40 (which turned out to be a very very hard physically thing to do). I have been to every LEO or Army small arms school I could attend and truthfully, and this is important, I didn't learn to shoot a pistol really well until I went to a civilian tactical shooting school just six years ago.

While I was a cop I was the school trained police Firearms Trainer and as an NCO, I attended the Small Arms Instructor Training School at the Fort Benning School for Wayward boys.

I had what was considered by the 'professionals" as all of the high speed schools there were but until i went out of my own pocket and learned from experts, I didn't know shinola.

I have some unique experience because I have been in gunfights where I shot people and I have been shot.

To me, and it's just my opinion, shot placement is everything. Cops and soldiers need to have high capacity magazines, no argument. The only time you have too much ammo is when you are on fire or drowning.

But concealed carry permit holders need to concentrate on one main concern and that is shot placement. "Spray and pray' is not an option when a wounded innocent bystander can sue you for every dime you will ever have.

So my recommendation is to carry what ever you can fire most accurately and at the same time safely conceal while still readily available. I really like my S&W M&P 9 Pro because I can write my nickname with it at 10 yards (and I couldn't before learning to really shoot it in a civilian school) but that's just me. When I am in my Jeep Wrangler on a road trip, i carry my Model 66 6" that i carried as a cop in a cross draw holster. It's very comfortable for long trips and there are very few people who will want to argue with it.

I spent my entire LEO career carrying a six shot revolver and only 12 backup rounds when crime in this country was infinitely higher so the argument that 'you won't have enough ammo' is pretty much a non-starter with me.

A civilian concealed carry permit holder should not be engaged in a long term gun battle and in truth, that almost never happens.

Best of luck to you and practice , practice, practice! Heaven forbid that you should ever have to fire your weapon in defense but if you do (and when you practice) keep reciting to yourself, "front sight, front sight, FRONT SIGHT!"

 

[S&W Fan]

Not a vet but my son is a current Army E6, now flight medic (for a year, 10 before as a combat medic) but spent almost 3 years in Iraq as a combat medic in the area of Quaddisiyah and Ramadi. The handgun discussion is one we've spent a lot of time on so allow me to offer his insight. His personal load was a M9 with a total of 3 mags, his M4 with a total of 11 mags. He had to go to his pistol only a couple of times-once while treating a wounded soldier and a wounded insurgent was also near by awaiting treatment-the insurgent got "fiesty" and as my son's M4 wasn't handy he drew his Beretta and held it on the bad guy for a very short period of time until another soldier could "convince" the bad guy to stay very quiet.

Without going in to more details his view was that this M4 was his main gun and things would have to have been really bad to go to his pistol. A problem more than anything else is the round nose ammo our forces must use in the pistol. Now he did interact with both Army and Navy specfors and most of the time the Army guys had the very same M9 and the Navy SEALs all had the Sig 226. He said it was very rare to see 1911s or Glocks in the holsters of these gentlemen-yes, it did happen but not often with the the guys HE encountered.

As a non-leo I carry the the pistol I handle the best and can conceal easiest depending on the climate. My next purchase will most likely be a Shield 9, a gun my son just bought and we shot for the first time yesterday. I loved it. I currently go back and forth between my custom 1911 and my very mildly modified full size M&P 9 and when the weather is warm a 642.

I'm pretty fortunate that my formal training goes back to 1978 with attendance at some very well known schools all on my own dime. I agree with BudMan that those schools account for making the most difference in my confidence and abilities.

Choose what works best, practice (alot) and hope to never need the skills but be confident in one's ability.