Vicious dog attack in our neighborhood.

[American1776]

We live in a rural area of PA (becoming more suburban over the last several years). Our townhouse development is very nice, tucked away between large farms.

Last night, a large and aggressive rotty attacked someone in the neighborhood badly enough to warrant ER visits for the human and the dog (both victims). This dog has apparently been a problem for years, with police reports being filed, and nothing being done. I've heard from other neighbors that the owner is abusive to the dog.

I've got my own fur baby (a 60 lbs. border collie/heeler rescue). I walk him most days through the neighborhood. I also sometimes bring my 6 year old daughter, and my wife as well (who is on chemo).

One of my EDC's is a M69 loaded with 210 gr. Silvertip magnums. I'm thinking of adding OC spray when I walk the dog.

This is not a 'bear gun' thread. Just an overall 'advice' thread. Lots of knowledgeable folks on here with a lot of experience to learn from.

It's unfortunate that one bad apple can put the entire nice little community in terror over night.


UPDATE IN POST 55:
Just spoke with another neighbor and long time friend. He's been calling local PD, because the dog is still on the loose and the owner still hasn't controlled it. More stories are surfacing, some with time stamps on social media, about the dog menacing young children in their own yards (from a year ago).

I was also told that our town does not have an animal control warden at this time. This might be a reason why the animal has not yet been captured nor quarentined. NO vet records either, as the owner refuses to release any. The victim is going to need to get rabies shots series.

 

[duane_wade]

I am not one to shoot any animal without cause but this one attack is enough to justify putting the animal down in my internet opinion. If the owner is not willing to accept responsibilty of keeping the dog fenced in or restrained or putting the dog down themselves. Depending on how densely populated your nice little addition and the appropriate time of day that dog would more than likely be found dead with a .22 bullet in its head.

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[Dave.357]

Make sure you can shoot
What ever you carry well.
It will be a high stress
Situation,big bullets
moderate speed
keep recoil manageable.

 

[prairieviper]

Did law enforcement respond concerning the attack that you mentioned? If law enforcement and/or animal control was involved, I can't imagine that the animal wasn't captured and quarantined pending an order from the court. Most states have vicious animal laws to address this sort of thing.

Have you personally contacted law enforcement about the problem? Try that. If that doesn't get you any satisfaction try contacting the county prosecutor. Addressing your concerns yourself is better than depending on hearsay from your neighbors.

 

[bigwheelzip]

More than once I've beaten back charging dogs while riding my bicycle. I use the bicycle pump mounted to the bike, grasping the handle and snapping the pump body out to the dog's head. It operates similarly to a collapsible police baton, so that might be an effective deterent.
Good luck.

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[Minorcan]

It is the Community LEO's responsibility to protect citizens. If they don't or chose not to I would be asking the Sheriff, pA and Mayor why not. A law suit applied to the owner should go a long Way in the meantime.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The Rottie has proven to be a threat! In my neck of the woods, if is running loose it dies! Our county SO has a quick form of firearm discharge paperwork for "nuisance animals", 5 minutes at the end of shift, NO review board!

Ivan

 

[American1776]

Make sure you can shoot
What ever you carry well.
It will be a high stress
Situation,big bullets
moderate speed
keep recoil manageable.

Thanks. I've practiced with the Silvertip 44 Magnums quite a bit in double action out to 10 yards. Granted paper doesn't bite nor shoot back.

 

[6518John]

Pennsylvania has strong state laws on this (as does every other state in the Union with which I am familiar).

Dangerous Dogs

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

A law suit applied to the owner should go a long Way in the meantime.

No it won't.
In my experience people who own and abuse vicious animals do not carry any homeowners liability insurance. Extra points if he does cause you're gonna win-otherwise you will have a useless uncollectable judgement that will be sitting behind other judgments, that depending on the state can be dusted off quite painlessly with a quick and dirty Chapter 7 as there is a certain amount of value of homestead that is exempt from seizure. Once the discharge is complete the homeowner can easily have the judgment stripped from the property.
Trust me on this one-I've done it countless times

 

[prairieviper]

Using a firearm should be your last resort, not your first.

 

[American1776]

Using a firearm should be your last resort, not your first.

That's why I offered the OC option in the OP.

Serious question: What options should I exhaust first when SA failed, and the rottweiler is charging me and my daughter and wife, or has one of them in it's jaws? Verbal commands? Hand to hand?

 

[SAFireman]

In some states a criminal charge can be brought about the owner. Sometimes multiple. Check with the local authorities and/or contact your attorney for an answer.

Don't let it get to the point that it hurts you, your child, or you pets. Know your local laws.

 

[375hh1973]

Was hiking in a state park in 2014. Loose German shepherd came up and lunged at my girlfriend. She kicked it and it paused long enough for me to put a gold dot from my .357 sig into its chest. Had a collar and tags. Dragged it off the trail and kept hiking.

 

[Farmer17]

We live in on an acreage in a country neighborhood and I ride my bicycle through the streets occasionally to get a little exercise . One house has a large black lab mix that usually runs at me barking his head off and snarling with his big teeth coming within 12" of my leg. The last time he did that I kicked at him to keep him away and that made him really mad and I nearly lost my balance getting my foot back on the pedal. At 61 years old crashing a bike is probably going to be a lot worse on me than a dog bite but I was pretty irritated. The people are very nice and I like them a lot so that makes it hard to decide how to handle the situation but I'm not letting any aggressive acting dog get its barking jaws that close to my bare skin.

 

[LoadedRound]

Last year my Norwegian Elkhound and I were attacked by a neighbor's Pit Bull. I didn't have a firearm, but was able to use an ASP to good effect. We both got away uninjured.

Be careful out there.

 

[Hapworth]

I think OC is a worthwhile addition to the walks provided you choose smartly and know the limitations, chiefly:

1) OC for humans and for dogs are two different products, with the latter having a lower concentration so that it is safer for the dog.

2) Like OC deployed against humans, it can be very effective but isn't a panacea and you can't expect it to work immediately or at all in every possibly situation.

3) Practice proper deployment -- many a folk end up spraying as much on themselves as the target.

Broadly, firearm or OC, prepare for an entangled use, plan and practice accordingly. It's highly unlikely you're going to spot, draw a bead on and stop a charging canine before they're in your space. In many instances, it also isn't advised unless the dog is known to be vicious or is giving all the signs and you presumably don't want to maim or kill a dog unless it's absolutely necessary.

It's surprising that the dog in question has a history of police reports on it and has now sent someone to the ER and PD isn't taking care of it. I'm sorry for your situation -- be it neighbor or neighbor dog, a bad apple on the block can really cast a pall over things until resolve. Like with a lot of things, avoidance is advised as the best first response.

I think some folks who are likely fearful in general and specifically canine ignorant are a little too ready to shoot a dog and it's a shame, but your case sounds like a legit problem dog and one attacking (not run up on, not scared me, but attacking) a loved one or a pet, protecting them by whatever means necessary is all there is to do.

Lastly, if you unfortunately have to make the tough call, don't accidentally shoot yourself like this deputy did: https://www.news4jax.com/news/local...o-shoot-attacking-dog-accidentally-hits-self/

 

[Grayfox]

I love dogs and the last thing I want to do is hurt one. My policy is that unless I'm actually attacked and blood is drawn, I won't do anything to harm or provoke them. However, I do carry a gun on me for my daily exercise walks.
Just the other day I was walking past one house. The woman was working in her flower beds and had a large Pit Bull and what appeared to be some kind of retriever mix on long leashes tied to a lawn chair. As I walked passed, they charged, dragging the chair with them as if it were nothing. They stopped within a foot of me, barking their heads off. I froze and spoke to them calmly. Although they were barking and snarling, neither one ever actually tried to bite. The woman ran over in a panic, grabbed the dogs and started apologizing. No big deal to me. The dogs were just doing their job and protecting their home. I never even touched my gun. I simply smiled and moved on. Now if they had drawn blood, that would have been a totally different story.
OTOH, several years ago in a large heavily wooded park near me, I ran across a guy with a large German Sheppard. That dog was clearly aggressive and wanted to attack straining at his leash. The owner kept him under control, but was standing there smiling. Clearly enjoying the show. Little did he know that my hand was already on my concealed 1911.

There's also one house I walk by everyday with a huge black Lab. He sometimes comes out to meet me, but he just wants a pat on the head.

 

[Hapworth]

Was hiking in a state park in 2014. Loose German shepherd came up and lunged at my girlfriend. She kicked it and it paused long enough for me to put a gold dot from my .357 sig into its chest. Had a collar and tags. Dragged it off the trail and kept hiking.

From your description, sounds like you killed someone's pet unnecessarily, hid the evidence and ran.

 

[Hapworth]

I love dogs and the last thing I want to do is hurt one. My policy is that unless I'm actually attacked and blood is drawn, I won't do anything to harm or provoke them. However, I do carry a gun on me for my daily exercise walks.
Just the other day I was walking past one house. The woman was working in her flower beds and had a large Pit Bull and what appeared to be some kind of retriever mix on long leashes tied to a lawn chair. As I walked passed, they charged, dragging the chair with them as if it were nothing. They stopped within a foot of me, barking their heads off. I froze and spoke to them calmly. Although they were barking and snarling, neither one ever actually tried to bite. The woman ran over in a panic, grabbed the dogs and started apologizing. No big deal to me. The dogs were just doing their job and protecting their home. I never even touched my gun. I simply smiled and moved on. Now if they had drawn blood, that would have been a totally different story.
OTOH, several years ago in a large heavily wooded park near me, I ran across a guy with a large German Sheppard. That dog was clearly aggressive and wanted to attack straining at his leash. The owner kept him under control, but was standing there smiling. Clearly enjoying the show. Little did he know that my hand was already on my concealed 1911.

There's also one house I walk by everyday with a huge black Lab. He sometimes comes out to meet me, but he just wants a pat on the head.

This is how it's done.