Victory data base

[ordnanceguy]

I have a victory model I'd love to find some information about and it can be added to the database you have.

Serial # V340027 on the bottom of the grip, and oddly the first 4 V3(4)0027 is stamped over another number; however it matches the serial number V340027 on the cylinder and under the barrel. It is marked 38 S&W however it has been bored to shoot 38SPL at some point in time. There are crown marks on every cartridge entrance to each cylinder, appears to be a crown with an upside down T. The right side of the barrel has a flaming mortar looking symbol with the letters NP (I think).

Above the 38S&W inscription is the inscription .38 1-15 followed by a symbol I can't read, then the number 4 and the letters TOM (the M is very faint and could be a N).

One line Made in U.S.A with a crown and T symbol underneath. There is a small P near the V on the bottom of the grip. And underneath the non-serialized stocks (maybe a beautiful walnut) on the right side is the letter A and on the left side a number 13 about middle ways up with another crown symbol towards the bottom left. The crane number on yoke and cylinder is 933 91 and there is an inscription S5 above the yoke number.

It has a 3.5" barrel, and blued and belonged to my great uncle who was a service member in the army but shortly after WW2. Any information you have would be awesome! Please see attached pictures.

Hello Chief:

Your revolver was already in the Database. It appears that it likely shipped from the factory in the June-July, 1943 time frame. It was a Lend Lease gun.

Your revolver was modified post-war by re-chambering it from .38 S&W to .38 Special, refinishing it to blue, cutting the 5" barrel to 3.5", adding a new front sight, and replacing the stocks.

The non-factory markings you referred to are post-war British commercial proof marks applied after it left military service.

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

Thank you! I had a friend do some research last year so he must have had it added. Can you tell me what the mortar symbol with the NP lettering stands for? Just trying to learn something!

 

[gmarshall99]

V1917

I recently acquired the above numbered Victory model in 38spl. Unfortunately, it has been refinished in a satin like finish. Reminds me of the model 28 finish. It came with diamond magna stocks. Underneath the stocks there is a letter S on the frame. I thought it might be an indication of the addition of the hammer block safety, but when I opened it up that was not the case. What doe the "S" indicate?

I also was interested in arsenal rework and refinishing. What finish would be put over an early Victory Black Magic finish. Is there a way of finding out more of the history of this gun past the ship date that a letter would provide. Will add photos soon.

 

[ordnanceguy]

V1917 ...What does the "S" indicate?

I also was interested in arsenal rework and refinishing. What finish would be put over an early Victory Black Magic finish. Is there a way of finding out more of the history of this gun past the ship date that a letter would provide.

Hello gmarshall99:

In some circumstances the S mark in certain locations can indicate that a gun has been worked on by the S&W Service Department. Given the limited photos provided I will venture that this is not the case here. The S mark on your revolver is most likely a fitter's, assembler's or inspector's mark. It is of little consequence.

I have never seen any evidence that any government arsenal "reworked" or refinished to blue 4 inch .38 Special Victory Model revolvers. The government did enter into a contract with S&W during late WW2 to rebuild Victory revolvers but those guns were refinished to Black Magic and have other markings that reveal a rebuild under that contract.

My opinion is that your revolver was refinished while in civilian hands and not by S&W or by any government arsenal.

As to any history beyond what might be provided in a SWHF letter the only source I can suggest would be the Springfield Research Service. I would caution you that finding a serial number listed by SRS is a very long shot and you have to subscribe to their service to be able to access that. See the link: Services |

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[gmarshall99]

Thank You Charlie for your reply.
Gary

 

[Timothy2700]

Here is my Victory

Submitting my one Victory for the data base, V716002 in 38 SPCL. I learned from the letter how the markings for US Navy Victory's varied during the war production. Manufactured in the latter part of 1944, this revolver's top strap is marked "(bomb) U. S. Property GHD"; and was ultimately shipped to the US Navy. The pistol belt and Brauer Bros. holster shown came with it when I purchased it.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Timothy:

That is a fine looking Navy Victory and rig.

Thanks very much for providing your factory letter. The data has now been incorporated into the Database.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[angelmonk]

Serial V 695830 4 inch 38 Special with bright blue

Hi there. Seeking info and opinion on:
1. Manufacture date

2. Since the cylinder has the Crown BNG ENGLAND proof mark, does it mean this is a land lease model? Or a post-war mix parts firearm. (The cylinder has "v" and "400003" markings on the side of the surface where the ammo cartridge is inserted).

3. If the cylinder is a land lease for Breat Britian, shouldn't it be 38 S&W instead of 38 Special ?

4. Adding the commercial blue, barrel says 38 Special (i.e. not 38 S&W), and it has a British crown cylinder, what is this boy ? ; )

5. The barrel's blue is in better condition than the frame. Does it look to be a "home changed" barrel ?

Thank you for the time.

 

[kwill1911]

The cylinder and barrel have been replaced. The barrel is post-war. It's odd that they used a BSR cylinder since it was probably .38 S&W and would have to be reamed out to fire .38 Special.

 

[Militariaman]

Information NEEDED

Hi everyone,

I have a second S&W victory to submit ! I search any information about an approximative date of fabrication ?



US PROPERTY


Serial Number : 981007


W.B. Markings


Barrel: 5 inches
Caliber: .38 S&W


NO british markings

Look at attached pictures for better view

Thanks in advance and best regards !

Militariaman

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Militariaman:

Your 981007 likely shipped from the S&W factory in April or May, 1942. It was a Lend Lease program gun.

You seem to be finding some nice revolvers over there in Switzerland. Good shooting and happy collecting to you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[angelmonk]

Hi there. Seeking info and opinion on:
1. Manufacture date

2. Since the cylinder has the Crown BNG ENGLAND proof mark, does it mean this is a land lease model? Or a post-war mix parts firearm. (The cylinder has "v" and "400003" markings on the side of the surface where the ammo cartridge is inserted).

3. If the cylinder is a land lease for Breat Britian, shouldn't it be 38 S&W instead of 38 Special ?

4. Adding the commercial blue, barrel says 38 Special (i.e. not 38 S&W), and it has a British crown cylinder, what is this boy ? ; )

5. The barrel's blue is in better condition than the frame. Does it look to be a "home changed" barrel ?

Thank you for the time.

Hi Charles, do you have additional opinion/info on this piece in additional to Kevin William's comment? Like the frame's manufacture date?

 

[Militariaman]

Hello Militariaman:

Your 981007 likely shipped from the S&W factory in April or May, 1942. It was a Lend Lease program gun.

You seem to be finding some nice revolvers over there in Switzerland. Good shooting and happy collecting to you.

Regards,
Charlie

Thanks for the infotmation !

What are the current price for an exemplar like this one in the US ?

Best regards

Militariaman

 

[NotSoPolicePositive]

Registered with the site just to post mine. US Property GHD marked, 4 inch barrel .38 Special, serial #V337587. Barrel matches frame, but the grips, although proper walnut, are not marked inside making me think they are replacements. Will probably order a letter for this and a Smith & Wesson Model 19-3 I have.

https://i.imgur.com/g0ZSOYA.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/EVBiHof.jpeg

(couldnt get the pics to link right, but they should be viewable).

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Let me help you out.

 

[Randy Harris]

Would like to get info on V7382X. 4" barrel .38 special. Thanks!

 

[ordnanceguy]

US Property GHD marked, 4 inch barrel .38 Special, serial #V337587.

Hello Not:

Thanks for your post. I can tell you that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the June-July, 1943 time frame, based upon the Victory Model Database.

Hope that helps you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[ordnanceguy]

Would like to get info on V7382X. 4" barrel .38 special. Thanks!

Hello Randy:

I'd like to help you but I can't work with incomplete serial numbers. If you can supply me with the complete serial, finish type, stock type, as well as any left top strap markings and any post-factory markings I can then dig into the Database for you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[snakeman99]

I just acquired #V704810 (stamped with Flaming Bomb and "US Property GHD on top strap) complete with USN Boyt '43 holster. The revolver was reportedly carried by Aviation Ordanceman William Harold Arnold who served from July '42 through January '46. His complete service record was included in the purchase. He was assigned to the following:

Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 67
Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 7
Bombing Squadron 99
Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 5
Torpedo Squadron 20 & Fighter Squadron 20
Carrier Aircraft Service Unit 23
Hedron Squadron 5

Carriers USS Enterprise and USS Lexington

 

[snakeman99]

I'm still a bit unsure on why a "Aviation Ordnancemen" would have been issued a sidearm, but from what I've researched tonight, it appears that some also served as "gunners" aboard larger multi-seat fighter bombers/torpedo planes. Of course, I'll never know for sure how he might have ended up with this revolver in his possession.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Snakeman:

A neat gun in excellent condition. It looks like Mr. Arnold attended the Naval Aviation Free Gunnery School at Whidbey Island, so he knew his way around aviation machine guns. His last rank recorded on his service record was AOM1/c (T) which, I think, translates to "AVIATION ORDNANCEMAN 1ST CLASS PETTY OFFICER, Aviation Turret Mechanic".

From the Victory Model Database I can tell you that your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the October, 1944 time frame. It would have taken some amount of time to travel to one of the Naval Supply Depots where it would have been transferred to an aviation unit for issuance to those aviators (including enlisted aircrew) authorized to have a side arm issued to them. My guess would be that Arnold would not likely have gotten his hands on this revolver before January, 1945.

Hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[MelvinWalker]

Hello.. How about Victory #V159236, 4 inch, .38 special with ordnance bomb on butt.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Melvin:

Regarding your V159236 the ship dates in that range are a little bit scattered. As you may know S&W did not ship in strict consecutive serial number order. My best estimate, based on the Victory Database, is that your revolver likely shipped in November, 1942.

HTH.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[Victory.38]

V114714

Hi all,

I picked up this Victory yesterday, number V114714. Looking through this fantastic thread, I'm guessing it dates to around mid-August 1942. I also would like to contribute to the database.

It's .38 S&W (.380/200), 5 inch barrel, with 'WB' and ordnance proofs. It has also been issued to the New Zealand forces.

If anyone has any further info or can confirm my guesswork for the date, that would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Simon

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Simon:

Welcome to the Forum. Thanks for posting the data on your nice New Zealand example.

From the Database it appears likely that your Victory shipped in the September-October, 1942 time frame.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[Victory.38]

Hi Charlie,

Many thanks for the welcome!
Thanks for looking at the database to clarify the date for me, I wasn't too far off with my guess!

Best regards,

Simon

 

[hybrid25]

Picked up a new zealand used victory, serial number 921331. It's still in 38. s&w with a 5 inch barrel but someone replaced its grips. I was hoping to find out what year it was made and what type of grips it originally shipped with.


Thanks,
Jason

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the cotton and peanut covered plains of the Wiregrass! It is a Lend-Lease gun so it would have shipped in late 1941 or early 1942. The grips should be plain Victory service grips.

 

[Arisaka99]

Low SN Victory no US markings

Picked up an early Victory today. SN V4302. All matching numbers on barrel, ejector, cylinder (I have not removed grips yet). .38 Special. 4" barrel. No US Govt. markings at all applied or removed. Original finish; no foreign or import markings. Crane SN 46440. Knowledge appreciated.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Picked up an early Victory today. SN V4302. Knowledge appreciated.

Hello Arisaka:

Your Victory likely shipped in the June or July, 1942 time frame. With the absence of any property, proof, inspection or acceptance markings it is unlikely that your revolver was shipped to the Navy. Not impossible but unlikely.

It is more likely to have shipped to a DSC-authorized recipient or to the U.S. Maritime Commission. Many DSC and Maritime Commission shipped guns are found in the Database in relatively close proximity to your serial number.

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie