Victory model question

[backer]

I'm about to come into possession of a pristine 4" victory model formally owned by a WWII naval aviator, who as a result of actions over Japan during the closing days of the war was awarded a Distinguished Flying Cross and a purple heart. And, a result of numerous bullet holes in his aircraft was forced to ditch out over the ocean and was eventually rescued, as he told it, by the very unhappy Capt. of an American submarine.

He also told me he normally did not carry his issued revolver because he had no desire to engage in a shooting match with a person with a rifle. As a result the revolver was in his footlocker along with a bottle of liquor on the day he did not make it back to the carrier. The locker eventually caught up with him along with the revolver but of course without the liquor.

The revolver is now in the possession of his son who would like me to take over its care which I'm more than willing to do. However, at some point, out of necessity, its going to change hands which leads me to the question do I simply stash it away or attempt to create a little history to go along with it? Seems a shame for it to just drift into never, never land.

One more point of interest the original owner was a native Oregonian who shared a last name with Col. Rex Applegate. Cousins as I understand it

Any thoughts?

Bob

 

[jeffrefrig]

That sounds like something that comes along once in a lifetime, being in great shape and with the history of the owner. Did his son or will you get it lettered? If you're going to pass it along, you may get more $$$ for it with the letter (so I've heard.) I'm far from any type of expert, I just like handguns, but I'm sure when you get it people are going to expect pictures. Maybe his son could provide you with pics of his dad in uniform, etc., to go along with it just for history's sake. Pittsburgh is far from never never land, by the way! (Hint hint nudge nudge wink wink!)

 

[murphydog]

Agree, would politely ask for all the documentation his son has, and if he is willing a written statement of his memories of his father's service. That information is valuable historically and easily lost/not easily found again.

 

[DWalt]

It was never owned by the aviator but by Uncle Sam. Generally, revolvers were issued to naval aviators from a shipboard armory before each mission, not assigned to an individual aviator on a semi-permanent basis. That revolver could have been carried by a hundred different pilots on a hundred different missions. The purpose of the revolver for naval flight crews was primarily for survival and signaling if downed, not for engaging in combat with enemy riflemen. That was something to be avoided at all costs. Stories get created and twisted over time. Biographical documentation about one of the revolver’s possible users may make it more desirable to some and mean nothing to others. I would be firmly in the second group, unless there was ironclad evidence that had been used by someone famous like Joe Foss or Pappy Boyington. Most serious gun collectors live by the motto of “Buy the gun, not the story.” Unless it’s a very compelling story with hard evidence connecting the gun to the story. Something like Jack Ruby’s Colt revolver or John Wilkes Booth’s Deringer. I don’t see any of that here, just another Navy Victory brought home from the war by grandpa Billy. Meaningful to his family, not so much by anyone else.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Howdy Bob,

Not directly related to the Victory Model, but has the son written to the Department of the Navy in an attempt to obtain whatever they have of his Dad's service records?

Often the Navy will say "the records were lost in the fire," but I've also heard some terrific stories about receiving terrific information.

That would certainly contribute to the back story, especially because of his decorations.

 

[backer]

I think I'll get it lettered and a statement from the son and let it go at that.
The fact that it was returned to him by way of the footlocker would clearly indicate it was issued and not drawn from the armory prior to each mission. The condition of the revolver also indicates virtually no use, and I know for a fact, that after the war it has rested in a dresser drawer for over 50 years.
Thanks to all for the input.
Bob

 

[HeloMt]

I think one should attempt to gather as much information as possible about the revolver and the aviator who used it during the war. Yes, I believe in "buying the gun and not the story"...but if it has a story, why not collect that to? I would letter it, have the son write up a brief history of his father and the revolver, perhaps get a photograph of the father in uniform and a photograph of the son with the revolver. History like this will disappear unless you make an effort now to capture it. If you don't, it's just one more Victory in a vast sea of such with no story or history. A little effort now, I think, is warranted.

 

[DWalt]

It is likely that the information to be obtained from a letter will be little more than the following:

1. Several paragraphs of boilerplate information about the model,
2. The date of its shipment from the factory, and,
3. To where it was initially shipped, usually to some Navy supply depot.

There will be no information supplied regarding where it went after that, i.e., what ship, etc.

 

[GypsmJim]

My Dad was a Seaman aboard a Destroyer Escort. When at anchor awaiting orders his captain would break out the small arms locker and let his men shoot at "targets" they threw overboard. Dad always said that if the order was given to abandon ship, any arms that were retrieved was theirs to keep.

If Dad had brought back a war souvenir, I can guarantee you that the item would reside in my family forever. OTOH, a firearm from someone else would be of no interest to me, thus it would not command a premium price. No matter who owned it.

I'm sure others feel the same way, so finding the right buyer will be a challenge.

 

[backer]

The only reason the son is passing it along to me is because father and I were good friends and he knows I will take care of it. Unfortunately I'm not going to live forever and eventually it's going be passed on and I thought it would be good if the next owner new something of its history.
I knew aircrews did not carry revolvers for the sole purpose of engaging enemy riflemen but it was returned with a full box of period correct 38 ball ammunition. Hmmmm.
Again thanks for the input.
Bob

 

[kwill1911]

DFC recipients are a matter of public record if you know his name.

 

[majick47]

I'v watched a number of Legacy Collectable youtube videos of WW2 veteran issued and foreign bring back weapons. Whenever possible any info provided by family of a deceased vet is added with the weapon, photos documents. The history would be very important to most future owners. From your description of condition it's very unlikely the pistol was ever issued from the shipboard armory to multiple pilots. Might want to check with the son to see if there was an accompanying holster for the Victory revolver.

 

[backer]

For those of you that are interested, Google up DFC recipient Robert M Applegate.
The citation along with a statement from the son should close the loop as good as is possible.
What do you think?
Bob

 

[ordnanceguy]

Backer:

If you can give me the complete serial number (by posting here or via a private message) I can provide you with a very good estimate on when this Victory likely shipped from the S&W factory, based upon the Victory Model Database.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

 

[backer]

The serial # is v 721278

 

[ordnanceguy]

The serial # is v 721278

Hello Backer:

With that serial info I can tell you that this Victory likely shipped from the factory in the November, 1944 time frame.

Sounds like a neat gun.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[backer]

Charlie
The November '44 date would seem to fit. The DFC was awarded for action in July, 1945.
Thank you
Bob