Vintage Browning Hi Power- Pass or Buy?

[Wee Hooker]

Today I ran across a super clean T serial numbered 68 vintage Belgian built Browning Hi-Power for sale that is tugging at my wallet. The gun came from an estate and has to be in 97% condition. It's a beauty. One of the things I like about the gun is that it wears target sights. ( Rear is adjustable and marked "Micro" and the front is a (3/8"?) tall partridge type with serrated face.) However, I don't think they are original so likely detract from the value of the gun.
I can own the gun w a couple sets of (equally mint) grips and 3 mags for $825 . It's calling me but admittedly I don't need it or even know how much I would shoot it.

Thoughts on value, purchasing etc. Welcome.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Oh, Dave:

You know you're in trouble when you say things like: "I don't need it, or know how much I'd use it". The Browning Hi-Power is an iconic handgun. I wanted one for years, and got my Mk-III with box, and documents for a song - if I recall correctly, I paid around $500.00 for it. I don't know enough Hi-Powers to tell you if yours is original or not, but I think the value is a bit high. I'd offer $650.00 and see if they'll bite.

Besides my H&K P-7, my Hi-Power is my most accurate 9mm handgun. Hi-Powers just seem to sit well in your hands - they just feel like they were meant to be there.

Good luck,

Dave

 

[Warren Sear]

Today I ran across a super clean T serial numbered 68 vintage Belgian built Browning Hi-Power for sale that is tugging at my wallet. The gun came from an estate and has to be in 97% condition. It's a beauty. One of the things I like about the gun is that it wears target sights. ( Rear is adjustable and marked "Micro" and the front is a (3/8"?) tall partridge type with serrated face.) However, I don't think they are original so likely detract from the value of the gun...

Be aware that those "partridge" sights can sometimes fly off.

 

[mauser9]

Sounds like a great gun but I would offer less also. Good luck with your decision

 

[howiema]

One thing I would make sure of is that it has the external extractor not the internal one. I am not sure what year they changed it over but if you have an internal extractor break first of all they are very hard to find and second they are even harder to tune correctly. Just my .02.

Good luck
Pete

 

[SilentKnight]

I have one that sounds like a match. It is an FN and a shooter with adjustable sights. Price sounds a little high to me. If condition is excellent I would agree with previous advice to offer $650 and see what happens. Buy it up to $700. Good luck.

 

[Protected One]

Today I ran across a super clean T serial numbered 68 vintage Belgian built Browning Hi-Power for sale that is tugging at my wallet. The gun came from an estate and has to be in 97% condition. It's a beauty. One of the things I like about the gun is that it wears target sights. ( Rear is adjustable and marked "Micro" and the front is a (3/8"?) tall partridge type with serrated face.) However, I don't think they are original so likely detract from the value of the gun.
I can own the gun w a couple sets of (equally mint) grips and 3 mags for $825 . It's calling me but admittedly I don't need it or even know how much I would shoot it.

Thoughts on value, purchasing etc. Welcome.

If you don't already own at least one Hi-Power this could be your opportunity to rectify that.
I would offer them $650, but be willing to go to $725 if necessary - considering the condition you say it's in.
Happy shooting!

 

[Backlighting]

It's my understanding that particular firearm is top shelf quality.
What I find amusing is the "high power" name. Very deceiving.
A 9mm?...I mean c'mon, it's not a 454 Casul

 

[PzKfW5]

I will dissent and say that is probably a fair price, T series HPs are considered the best of the crop from a collector's standpoint. Forged frame, good finish, external extractor, and it still has the original P35 design without barrel bushing changes, barrel hood changes, etc that the later guns had. (Although the cast guns are much stronger, both in frame and slide - different heat treatment you see). If it comes with the original grips, three original commercial 60's era Belgian mags (these are also hard to find, now), and the black leather soft case, all in 97% condition, then I would be tempted. It's also a matter of whether you want to have the adjustable sights, some versions of them can indeed fly apart, if anything this would reduce the value to me especially if you want to keep the gun in original shape. I have a mid 60s HP with fixed sights original blonde grips and leather case, in 97% condition and I can tell you I bought it from the original owner, and that I paid more than $850 for it. It is a gem but only likes long bullet types. Don't buy it as a nightstand gun or a target gun, but a "just cause" kind of gun, kind of like a nice mechanical watch. It does a lot of things well but is the best at none of them.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

The Hi Power is a must have classic. If you can swing a deal snatch it up!

 

[Andyd]

I have bought a Belgium GP35 recently and have done a little market research. Well worn Israeli High Powers have now sold out at $479 plus shipping, used commercial Belgian Brownings in good condition sell for $700 to 900 and the T prefix is at the higher end.
The black zippered gun case is made out of plastic, not leather, but adds to the value.

Mine is a Belgian gun from 1988.

 

[murphydog]

Photos would help here...but if you continue to think about it, this may be a clue as to whether you should buy it .

 

[alwslate]

The sights may be original because the original sights did sit pretty
high. A photo would help. If they are original the gun would likely
sell for more than the asking price on GB in the condition you describe.
The question is how much is it worth to you?

 

[Darkenfast]

I've seen good T-series examples going for more than $850, but I'm not sure how those sights affect the value of a High Power from that era. Now we cringe, but back then a lot of people felt that they just HAD to have adjustable sights on a service gun (and a lot of gun writers told them so!). Those T-series are pretty, though. I have a lowly C-series, but it looks pretty good too!.

 

[Wee Hooker]

Thanks Folks, I'm going to go take a second look and maybe leave an offer on the table. After some more research, I'm thinking $825 is fair but not enough to "make me buy it " given it would likely be a safe queen.

 

[CptCurl]

Oh yeah, I just love my T-Series Browning HP.

The price mentioned is a steal, except for the adjustable sights. Those sights would cause me to turn and run. There are others to be had with proper sights.

To spice things a bit, here are photos of mine (made in 1967):

Curl

 

[2152hq]

I'd pass only because of the adj sights. The Micro brand rear and the high front blade just don't do anything for me. Remind me of garage gunsmithed 1911's made up for Bullseye shooting when the guns were $50. The standard fixed sights make the pistol look and shoot just fine.
But that's just my opinion and is worth nothing. You are the customer.

Certainly nothing wrong with the BHP itself, the earlier the post-war production gun the better IMO.
Ring hammer, outside extractor,,,

You might check the pistol to see if the magazine safety has been removed (hammer falls when trigger pulled with the mag out of the gun).
It's a fairly common quick alteration done in attempts to achieve a better trigger pull.
Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but some people like the gun original, and are bothered if someone has been inside it.
Others like the modification being done.
It's good to know wether the feature is there or not for safety sake.

Good luck in your pursuit!

 

[CptCurl]

You might check the pistol to see if the magazine safety has been removed (hammer falls when trigger pulled with the mag out of the gun).

I second that. I don't want any pistol modified to remove a safety feature.

Curl

 

[da gimp]

One thing I would make sure of is that it has the external extractor not the internal one. I am not sure what year they changed it over but if you have an internal extractor break first of all they are very hard to find and second they are even harder to tune correctly. Just my .02.

Good luck
Pete

hm.. tuning an internal extractor of the Browning HiPower or a 1911A1/1911 ... remove the old one .. put the new one in. that is all that needs doing if the new extractor is within specs... if it isn't..you might have to put a slight bend in one, by hand.. the original John Moses Browning designed internal extractor has proven to be extremely reliable & easily replaced in well over 5 million 1911/1911A1's and the original Browning High Power...

the extractor design was changed SOLELY because it was cheaper & easier to make ... period.. To replace the newer external style takes a proper sized pin punch, a hammer, a work bench , a small clamp helps too...& a very clean area to work on in case you drop the spring... this is not user friendly repairable in the best of circumstances & in case of one breaking in the field renders the handgun un-useable except as a single shot ... requiring the use of a rod/pencil or ink pen to force the case out of the barrel...until you can get it to a gunsmith or are lucky enough to find the correct pin punch...and have the rest of the tools needed too.

 

[da gimp]

I second that. I don't want any pistol modified to remove a safety feature.

Curl

In regards to the magazine safety...In my opinion & that of many others, it would be extremely silly/fool hardy to have such a device on a carry/duty handgun...If I have a cartridge in the chamber & am swapping mags to put a fully loaded mag in place .. I still want it to be able to work..I'm told it was put on originally to please some purchasing agent.. with them being told it could be easily removed if someone didn't like it... I'm betting that 98% of all the BHP's you see with it removed was because a previous owner carried it for self defense...Heck nearly every BHP I've shot has a decent trigger.

 

[dmar]

Although I prefer the standard sights, I'd definitely buy a nice T Series for that price. I was looking to get one last year, and it seemed like they were all over $1,000...

 

[Lou_the_welder]

I sold my hipower for $800. The polished bluing was among the best I've seen. It looked like a fine marble. I couldn't get over the trigger pull and that "shark fin" front sight. I mainly kept it at the time because i was telling myself i was a collector. I soon realized i was a shooter not a collector and couldn't justify keeping it in the safe. My mentality today is ,"shoot it, or sell it!"it wasnt the best shooting 9 i have. It probably would have been if i didnt own a 9mm 1911! In a semi-auto.

 

[msinc]

It's my understanding that particular firearm is top shelf quality.
What I find amusing is the "high power" name. Very deceiving.
A 9mm?...I mean c'mon, it's not a 454 Casul

It is not deceiving at all...a handgun that was capable of firing 9mm machine gun ammo {a lot more powerful than SAAMI 9mm today} in 1935. Going back to 1935, when you consider what other handgun had this capability and had a 13 round magazine the "High Power" name is't such a deception after all. There was some surplus Israeli Uzi ammo floating around not long ago...get a box and try it, you'll get the High Power part quick.
Personally, any T series High Power in 95% or better condition is well worth $875.00. I paid that for my Practical back in 2004 and was glad to get it. T series High Powers are like 20 gauge Model 12's, Pre-64 Model 70's and Wingmaster's...after you pass on several you will wish you hadn't when you really decide it's time to get one!!!!!

 

[samandglove1]

Are you sure the adjustable target sights aren't factory? I have had many Hi Powers over the years (still have a few left over) and some have had factory adjustable target sights. Some variations actually make them more desirable.

I sold this example with factory "beer can" adjustable target sights last year for considerably more than the asking price of the gun you're looking at. It is a Belgian gun from the early 70's.

 

[WVSig]

Today I ran across a super clean T serial numbered 68 vintage Belgian built Browning Hi-Power for sale that is tugging at my wallet. The gun came from an estate and has to be in 97% condition. It's a beauty. One of the things I like about the gun is that it wears target sights. ( Rear is adjustable and marked "Micro" and the front is a (3/8"?) tall partridge type with serrated face.) However, I don't think they are original so likely detract from the value of the gun.
I can own the gun w a couple sets of (equally mint) grips and 3 mags for $825 . It's calling me but admittedly I don't need it or even know how much I would shoot it.

Thoughts on value, purchasing etc. Welcome.

Do the micro sights look like these?

If it is a T series it pretty much has to have an external extractor. T series were made from 1963 to 1972. External extractor arrived in 1962-1963. FN always has some overlap but I have not personally seen a T series with an internal extractor but that does not mean on does not exist.

If you are looking for a safe queen T series as a classic example of a Hi Power I would pass on this gun. The micro sight was a popular modification at one time. I do not own the gun above but one like it. The micro sight is just ok. It is not a great sight I personally prefer a Bomar if I am looking at a vintage adjustable like this one.



IMHO people over pay for T series guns. The T series designation does not really denote a production change. It mainly was an inventory control tool for FN. No changes to the design or production of the parts was changed. What was changed was the process used to blue the guns. Even in 1969 FN was pinching pennies to make more guns faster and at a lower cost.

One of the reasons some many people prize these pistols is because they were the last salt blue BHP pistols which received a lot of hand polishing. Prior to 1962-1963 BHPs were rust blued. In 1969-1970 the C series designation was again more of an inventory tool there are no real changes to the design or function of the gun. What did change is the bluing process. The salt bluing was highly automated. The polishing and bluing was not done with as much hand labor as it was prior to 1969.

So really when one is looking at a T series you are looking a gun with superior bluing and polishing. When a gun is worn or has been altered the "value" of a T series is greatly diminished. Later T series and early C series are identical because they were blued using the same process. IMHO when looking for a T series you want to get a 1968 or older gun in pristine condition, if you are going to pay a premium. Guns before 1969 are the best of the breed. By 1969- 1972 T series is only different than a C series because the serial number is using a different naming convention. The guns are for all intents and purposes the same. This is why I like to examine and evaluate each example of a T or C series gun in person if possible. These days it is not so easy to do so sometimes you just have to pictures posted on the web. This is why I will not buy a T series at a premium price unless the photographs stellar because what you are really paying for is the finish.

 

[Rick_A]

Technically the MKIII's are the best of the breed...for strength and durability, anyway.

The wife's next to my 1911.
20141222_152812 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
20141222_151958 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

Hers is relatively "high powered."
20141222_132829 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
It's the smoothest shooting 40S&W I've ever fired. It's certainly not the prettiest of them.

The hammer always comes remarkably close to taking a chunk out of me. That always makes me nervous until I shoot it.

 

[gwpercle]

Life's way to short to not heed the call. She's singing a little song to you, calling out to you....BUY , BUY, BUY.

It's now or never, my first high power deal was passed on..... I never had another come along. Go for it !

Gary

 

[WVSig]

It's my understanding that particular firearm is top shelf quality.
What I find amusing is the "high power" name. Very deceiving.
A 9mm?...I mean c'mon, it's not a 454 Casul

FN Herstal is a Belgian company and their native tongue is French. The gun that JMB originally designed for FN which was built around the 15 round magazine designed by FN design Saive was named "Le Grande Rendement" or The High Efficiency. This gun was never produced beyond prototypes for the French pistol trials.

Saive later refined the design after JB passed. The French never adopted the design but the Belgians did. FN named the pistol we call the Browning Hi Power "le Grande Puissance" The High Power. There is a lot of speculation around why it was called the High Power. I have never been able to determine myth from truth regarding that part but IIRC it was not named as such because of the "power" of the 9mm cartridge.

It was marked by FN Herstal as the "Browning 9m/m High Power Automatic Pistol". The Browning name even after his death carried a great deal of marketing appeal. Browning the company later became the importer of the Browning 9m/m High Power Automatic Pistol and started to use the term Hi-Power was used so it would not be confused with the Browning High Powered Rifle which they also sold.

FN continued to use the term High Power to this day. They also designate the pistols MKIII while Browning/FN still uses Hi-Power for US marketing.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Keep in mind that in the first half of the 20th century many European Military forces carried .32 and 7.63 autos......

..... and the 9mm "parabellum" developed by the Germans.... translates to something like "prepare for war".......

.... so maybe in 1900/1930 9mm was "hi-power"

 

[Zip06]

I am biased toward the Hi Power, I just find them a perfect blend of ergonomics, practicality, high capacity, excellent quality and the finest example of John Browning designed sidearms. I have two of them. If the pictures in your post are any indication of the pistol it looks like a great example. Although it is a single action for the first round that is easily dealt with through training. They are very accurate and as an investment you will do well if/when you decide to sell it. The model you have was manufactured in Belgium which is considered more desireable that the assembled in Portugal, Mark III. As for durability/reliability, the SAS used the High Power from WWII until the turn of the century and the FBI HRT Team has also used it for decades. If at all possible you should find one and shoot it to see if it agrees with you and if not just buy it as an investment. You will get your money out it it. I do not think that price is particularly out of line.