Vintage Browning Hi Power- Pass or Buy?
- Thread starter Wee Hooker
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Lou_the_welder
Member
I sold my hipower for $800. The polished bluing was among the best I've seen. It looked like a fine marble. I couldn't get over the trigger pull and that "shark fin" front sight. I mainly kept it at the time because i was telling myself i was a collector. I soon realized i was a shooter not a collector and couldn't justify keeping it in the safe. My mentality today is ,"shoot it, or sell it!"
it wasnt the best shooting 9 i have. It probably would have been if i didnt own a 9mm 1911! In a semi-auto.
it wasnt the best shooting 9 i have. It probably would have been if i didnt own a 9mm 1911! In a semi-auto.It is not deceiving at all...a handgun that was capable of firing 9mm machine gun ammo {a lot more powerful than SAAMI 9mm today} in 1935. Going back to 1935, when you consider what other handgun had this capability and had a 13 round magazine the "High Power" name is't such a deception after all. There was some surplus Israeli Uzi ammo floating around not long ago...get a box and try it, you'll get the High Power part quick.
Personally, any T series High Power in 95% or better condition is well worth $875.00. I paid that for my Practical back in 2004 and was glad to get it. T series High Powers are like 20 gauge Model 12's, Pre-64 Model 70's and Wingmaster's...after you pass on several you will wish you hadn't when you really decide it's time to get one!!!!!
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samandglove1
Member
Are you sure the adjustable target sights aren't factory? I have had many Hi Powers over the years (still have a few left over) and some have had factory adjustable target sights. Some variations actually make them more desirable.
I sold this example with factory "beer can" adjustable target sights last year for considerably more than the asking price of the gun you're looking at. It is a Belgian gun from the early 70's.
I sold this example with factory "beer can" adjustable target sights last year for considerably more than the asking price of the gun you're looking at. It is a Belgian gun from the early 70's.
Do the micro sights look like these?
If it is a T series it pretty much has to have an external extractor. T series were made from 1963 to 1972. External extractor arrived in 1962-1963. FN always has some overlap but I have not personally seen a T series with an internal extractor but that does not mean on does not exist.
If you are looking for a safe queen T series as a classic example of a Hi Power I would pass on this gun. The micro sight was a popular modification at one time. I do not own the gun above but one like it. The micro sight is just ok. It is not a great sight I personally prefer a Bomar if I am looking at a vintage adjustable like this one.
IMHO people over pay for T series guns. The T series designation does not really denote a production change. It mainly was an inventory control tool for FN. No changes to the design or production of the parts was changed. What was changed was the process used to blue the guns. Even in 1969 FN was pinching pennies to make more guns faster and at a lower cost.
One of the reasons some many people prize these pistols is because they were the last salt blue BHP pistols which received a lot of hand polishing. Prior to 1962-1963 BHPs were rust blued. In 1969-1970 the C series designation was again more of an inventory tool there are no real changes to the design or function of the gun. What did change is the bluing process. The salt bluing was highly automated. The polishing and bluing was not done with as much hand labor as it was prior to 1969.
So really when one is looking at a T series you are looking a gun with superior bluing and polishing. When a gun is worn or has been altered the "value" of a T series is greatly diminished. Later T series and early C series are identical because they were blued using the same process. IMHO when looking for a T series you want to get a 1968 or older gun in pristine condition, if you are going to pay a premium. Guns before 1969 are the best of the breed. By 1969- 1972 T series is only different than a C series because the serial number is using a different naming convention. The guns are for all intents and purposes the same. This is why I like to examine and evaluate each example of a T or C series gun in person if possible. These days it is not so easy to do so sometimes you just have to pictures posted on the web. This is why I will not buy a T series at a premium price unless the photographs stellar because what you are really paying for is the finish.
Rick_A
Member
Technically the MKIII's are the best of the breed...for strength and durability, anyway.
The wife's next to my 1911.
20141222_152812 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
20141222_151958 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
Hers is relatively "high powered."
20141222_132829 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
It's the smoothest shooting 40S&W I've ever fired. It's certainly not the prettiest of them.
The hammer always comes remarkably close to taking a chunk out of me. That always makes me nervous until I shoot it.
The wife's next to my 1911.
20141222_152812 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
20141222_151958 by Slick_Rick77, on FlickrHers is relatively "high powered."
20141222_132829 by Slick_Rick77, on FlickrIt's the smoothest shooting 40S&W I've ever fired. It's certainly not the prettiest of them.
The hammer always comes remarkably close to taking a chunk out of me. That always makes me nervous until I shoot it.
gwpercle
Member
Life's way to short to not heed the call. She's singing a little song to you, calling out to you....BUY , BUY, BUY.
It's now or never, my first high power deal was passed on..... I never had another come along. Go for it !
Gary
It's now or never, my first high power deal was passed on..... I never had another come along. Go for it !
Gary
FN Herstal is a Belgian company and their native tongue is French. The gun that JMB originally designed for FN which was built around the 15 round magazine designed by FN design Saive was named "Le Grande Rendement" or The High Efficiency. This gun was never produced beyond prototypes for the French pistol trials.
Saive later refined the design after JB passed. The French never adopted the design but the Belgians did. FN named the pistol we call the Browning Hi Power "le Grande Puissance" The High Power. There is a lot of speculation around why it was called the High Power. I have never been able to determine myth from truth regarding that part but IIRC it was not named as such because of the "power" of the 9mm cartridge.
It was marked by FN Herstal as the "Browning 9m/m High Power Automatic Pistol". The Browning name even after his death carried a great deal of marketing appeal. Browning the company later became the importer of the Browning 9m/m High Power Automatic Pistol and started to use the term Hi-Power was used so it would not be confused with the Browning High Powered Rifle which they also sold.
FN continued to use the term High Power to this day. They also designate the pistols MKIII while Browning/FN still uses Hi-Power for US marketing.
Keep in mind that in the first half of the 20th century many European Military forces carried .32 and 7.63 autos......
..... and the 9mm "parabellum" developed by the Germans.... translates to something like "prepare for war".......
.... so maybe in 1900/1930 9mm was "hi-power"
..... and the 9mm "parabellum" developed by the Germans.... translates to something like "prepare for war".......
.... so maybe in 1900/1930 9mm was "hi-power"
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I am biased toward the Hi Power, I just find them a perfect blend of ergonomics, practicality, high capacity, excellent quality and the finest example of John Browning designed sidearms. I have two of them. If the pictures in your post are any indication of the pistol it looks like a great example. Although it is a single action for the first round that is easily dealt with through training. They are very accurate and as an investment you will do well if/when you decide to sell it. The model you have was manufactured in Belgium which is considered more desireable that the assembled in Portugal, Mark III. As for durability/reliability, the SAS used the High Power from WWII until the turn of the century and the FBI HRT Team has also used it for decades. If at all possible you should find one and shoot it to see if it agrees with you and if not just buy it as an investment. You will get your money out it it. I do not think that price is particularly out of line.
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I've read that the magazine "safety" was one specification for guns to be entered in the French pistol trials, for which the BHP was originally designed. The theory was that armorers could just drop the magazine before putting the gun on the shelf and be certain that it was inert, rather than having to handle the gun, rack the slide, chase any rounds that ejected, etc., all of which were more dangerous (apparently, at least to the French) than storing a gun with a round in the chamber.
I shot BHPs in IDPA matches when I first began. One had had its mag disconnect removed before I bought it. But the new one I bought came with it. It's a little square plate that sticks out of the back of the trigger and is pushed in (forward) when a magazine is installed. If it is sticking out into the mag well, the trigger doesn't connect to the linkage with the sear, but if it's pushed in or missing, everything works fine. The "problem" is that the little plate slides up and down on the front of the magazine as the trigger is pulled. You can polish the little plate, and the front of the magazines where the plate slides, and even lubricate it, to smooth out the sliding surfaces. But the trigger action is still nicer (IMHO) when the device is removed, and the magazines always drop free when you punch the button. But IDPA rules required that all factory safety devices remain in place, and while I was never checked on it at our club's fairly informal matches, that was one of the reasons I switched to Glocks (before switching to my current K frame - just to keep things on topic for the forum in general
)
Parabellum is from the ancient Latin phrase "Si vis pacem, para bellum." If you want peace, prepare for war. In "print" in that form since the 4th or 5th century, but probably traceable back at least as far as Plato's time. (Per Wikipedia.) It is, among other things, the motto of the Royal Navy.
I shot BHPs in IDPA matches when I first began. One had had its mag disconnect removed before I bought it. But the new one I bought came with it. It's a little square plate that sticks out of the back of the trigger and is pushed in (forward) when a magazine is installed. If it is sticking out into the mag well, the trigger doesn't connect to the linkage with the sear, but if it's pushed in or missing, everything works fine. The "problem" is that the little plate slides up and down on the front of the magazine as the trigger is pulled. You can polish the little plate, and the front of the magazines where the plate slides, and even lubricate it, to smooth out the sliding surfaces. But the trigger action is still nicer (IMHO) when the device is removed, and the magazines always drop free when you punch the button. But IDPA rules required that all factory safety devices remain in place, and while I was never checked on it at our club's fairly informal matches, that was one of the reasons I switched to Glocks (before switching to my current K frame - just to keep things on topic for the forum in general
)Parabellum is from the ancient Latin phrase "Si vis pacem, para bellum." If you want peace, prepare for war. In "print" in that form since the 4th or 5th century, but probably traceable back at least as far as Plato's time. (Per Wikipedia.) It is, among other things, the motto of the Royal Navy.
Stranglehold
Member
Sawfish
Member
Buy it! Best shooting pistol that I own. It will continue to appreciate in value.
Great Gun
While I'm not up on prices, that the Hi-Power is a first rate carry/home defense/survival gun is not in doubt. Also, the gun is slim through the slide, making IWB carry much more comfy than with a 1911 or a Glock double stack.
As for the 9mm cartridge: while some feel it isn't enough to reliably kill field mice, the FBI and many other LE agencies are returning to the 9mm after a two-decade affair with the snappy .40 S&W.
While I'm not up on prices, that the Hi-Power is a first rate carry/home defense/survival gun is not in doubt. Also, the gun is slim through the slide, making IWB carry much more comfy than with a 1911 or a Glock double stack.
As for the 9mm cartridge: while some feel it isn't enough to reliably kill field mice, the FBI and many other LE agencies are returning to the 9mm after a two-decade affair with the snappy .40 S&W.
My 1969 C series Hi-Power is fully the equal of any T series pistol I've examined.
Roe
Nice looking C series.
Here is a pre- T series with the rust blue finish.
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I have read/heard that argument against magazine safeties for many years, and I call 'bunk' on it in a real-life scenario. Are you really going to swap out a partially loaded magazine? Can you realistically keep track of all your shots, save the last one in the chamber, and then load a fresh mag in a 'stressfire' situation? Do you really need to be able to fire a single chambered round? Would you fire that round without a magazine in? If you do fire that round without a magazine in place, the slide will travel forward on an empty chamber, thus entailing you to then insert a loaded replacement magazine and draw back and release the slide to ready the pistol. I think the normal drill of shooting the pistol dry and using the slide release to chamber the first round from a fresh magazine is the most effective.
My favorite semi-auto protection/defensive pistol is a third-gen S&W 908. I have no qualms about the magazine safety, and in fact consider it to provide several safety advantages, over the slim possibility of wanting to fire a chambered round without a magazine in place.
A near mint condition T Series for that price is a very good buy. Without a photo it is hard to say if the sights are OEM. OEM target sights on a T Series are different from the later series pistols. You will kick yourself if you let it go by. Buy it...
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I have a Belgian made Argentine contract GP35 (think it was made '60/61) The external extractor isn't that big a deal. That being said you will run into one thing, the side plate that pins the sear lever in place is very, very thin where it was serrated. Mine split and I had to have it fixed because they are beyond impossible to find. Other than that I can't speak highly enough of the BHP. They are a fantastic pistol to shoot both in feel and accuracy.
357p239
Member
Hi-Power
The gun in question is a pre-68 Browning import. The sights are not original to the gun but are Micro standard sights. Micro also made low mount sights which required milling the slide. The round hammer bites a lot of people, but since they were made that way for thirty years it must not be a major flaw. Removing the magazine safety greatly improves the trigger pull, but it'll never be a "target" trigger. I've owned three, two pre- and one post-68. They're great guns.
The gun in question is a pre-68 Browning import. The sights are not original to the gun but are Micro standard sights. Micro also made low mount sights which required milling the slide. The round hammer bites a lot of people, but since they were made that way for thirty years it must not be a major flaw. Removing the magazine safety greatly improves the trigger pull, but it'll never be a "target" trigger. I've owned three, two pre- and one post-68. They're great guns.
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