Violence Control.....

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This is a long rant, but read the first half dozen paragraphs for sure. It really concerns all of us and I believe that it addresses the REAL problem in this country.

I was up in the air about where to put this. It's not about carry or defense and it's not about legislation, so I thought I'd put it here to kick around.

Most of us believe that laws and restrictions are not an answer to violence. Why has violence gotten so out of control in this country? It's the culture of violence that immerses people so deep that they believe that the only choice they have and the answer to all their problems is violence. A man killed something like 8 people in the late 1940s. Then in the 60s the Texas bell tower sniper went on a modern day shooting rampage with no automatic weapons and I don't believe he had any detachable magazines on rifles. It was shown that a brain tumor was shown by the medical community to have very likely caused his behavior, he was a model student/citizen before the rampage and begged people for help to get whatever was causing those thoughts out of his head. Very sad story.

Fast forward to 1984. Post office worker kills 21 people.
1986, another postal worker
1991 Shoot in cafeteria kills 23 people in OK.
1999 Columbine

I think our memories can take over from there. Since then the number of mass shootings has increased exponentially. There were six mass shooting in 2015.

Weapons are only a symptom of the real disease. People need to be taught that there are levels of response before you jump straight to violence and killing. People need to be taught coping skills because life IS very frustrating. We can't ask movie/TV.video game people to stop producing violent shows and products. But we can educate people not to lose themselves in this to the point of thinking that violence is normal. Children early on should be warned and prepared that their peers are going to pressure them into more of this behavior, especially if they are exposed to 'street' culture. (I can speak first handed there.) and we KNOW that they WILL be influenced that way. Let's have mental health at school and home as well as learning to wash our hands and brush our teeth.

We played army and cops and robbers and cowboys and indians but we kniew it wasn't real and when we stopped playing, we stopped pretending. People today don't seem to understand that as they are programmed to live in a virtual or media driven world. We were able to put it aside. If we played ultra realistic violent games or watched violent TV and movies and listened to violence ridden music and never listened to our teachers, parents or other adults, we may have turned out the same way. Nowadays its cooked into people's brains.

We've already heard how this continued exposure desensitizes people to the point that they think that violence and killing is no big deal. With all that I"ve mentioned, I'd be more surprised if we DIDN'T have a deep streak of violence now.

It's going to do a lot more good if we can get people away from influences. They aren't going to go easy for sure. I suggest that one way is to involve people in healthier pursuits, like sports that DON'T call for violence. Or if they do, make sure that it is a healthy outlet for aggression. Team sports are very good for several reasons, but they take set times and resources. I'd like to see individual sports brought back


Fencing, billiards, ping pong, fishing hunting, shooting, hiking, tennis, slot car racing. handball archery, RC modeling, swimming kayaking, canoeing, trail bikes. boxing/martial arts, Chess, magic tricks, handball, music, model rockets reading reloading, model trains carpentry mechanics, I could fill up this page with activities that are fun and interesting. Get away from the TV and computer and DO something.

We usually had a 'main' hobby in the summer that all friends would participate in. One summer it was half-rubber, next it was slot cars. another was playing musc (garage band stuff)

You can't tell me that kids with all the durn money that they have today, can't get into some of these activities. They pay two hundred bucks for a pair of shoes.

Ok, I got really long winded and I wonder if I should press the save button, but this is something that's weighing on me in light of all the revived talk about 'gun violence'.
 
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That's another thing to fight for....

Among other problems, politicians have encouraged people to believe that they have no responsibility for what happens to them. When bad things happen they blame others/society and want to get even.

We finally got some relief from 'political correctness'. Maybe that attitude will change next. Of course what I propose requires effort on the part of many people whereas other proposals just make more laws.
 
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Then in the 60s the Texas bell tower sniper went on a modern day shooting rampage with no automatic weapons and I don't believe he had any detachable magazines on rifles.

Not that it has any bearing on your premise, but I believe the "Texas Tower Sniper" (Whitman was his last name, I can't recall the rest) did have, among other firearms, an M1 Carbine. I do not know if he had 15 or 30 round mags, nor how many casualties were the result of fire from the .30 Carbine.

Tim
 
I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, big money is made pushing the culture of sex, violence, immorality and drugs in movies, television and video games.
Add to this mix that almost all of these mass murders, including school shooting killers, were on psychiatric medications at the time or just prior to the killings. Coincidence, I don't think so.
Also, consider that we no longer have any places to house the severely insane. They either spill over into main stream society or end up in the criminal justice system.
 
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Jailed for beating his wife, bad conduct discharge, cracked his son's skull.
Why wasn't this guy locked up? The President said this is not a gun problem,
it's a mental problem.

Back in the early 60s I was a teacher. I had a 7th grade student who
was a constant discipline problem. We used paddles in those days.
A few years later I was auditing state institutions and ran into him at
the youth training center. Then a few more years and I found him at
the state penitentiary.

My point is bad actors can be identified early. When Reagan was
president, we emptied all of the mental institutions and put them out
on the streets. It was a mental problem and it still is a mental problem.
We need to learn to identify those with problems and give them treatment.

Our legal system cannot continue to slap bad actors on the wrist and then
put them back out on the street. When they show us what kind of person
they are we should believe them.

Finally, and I know this one will never happen, we should not only allow,
but insist that every adult be trained and compelled to carry a gun openly in view.
Make it impossible for those so inclined to find a "soft target".

Just call me crazyphil.
 
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I'm reading a book right now that dedicates a chapter to mass killings and prescribed psychiatric drugs. The book is "How Evil Works" by David Kupelian. Many or most of the criminals started on these meds early in life with Ritalin, Prozac, anti depressants. Big money is made by dispensing these drugs and of course the drug makers want to hush the connection.
 
We finally got some relief from 'political correctness'. Maybe that attitude will change next. Of course what I propose requires effort on the part of many people whereas other proposals just make more laws.

Just remember "Political Correctness", was invented by Mao Tse Tung!
 
Just a little history. Thirty or forty years ago people with psychological problems, especially those thought to be a danger were confined in institutions.

THEN Big Pharma developed expensive medications, which a kinder-and-gentler-state found to be a less expensive option.

Now persons who have mental (illnesses, the medical profession thinks everything is an illness now -- owning a gun is likley in DSM-14 by now), are in the general.population HOPEFULLY taking thier medication which HOPEFULLY keeps the malfunction that was HOPEFULLY properly diagnosed in check.

What could possibly go wrong.
 
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Your concerns are well taken, and I do share your sentiments.

However, I must respectfully disagree with your premise: that violent crime has gotten worse over time.

By just about all measures that I have looked at (economists and criminologists, mostly), the rates of violent crime, (assault, agg. assault, including murder), have been dropping at a steady and a consistent pattern since at least the 1970's. The rates of violent crime have been dropping so dramatically that criminologists are searching for an explanation as to why.

I cite these stats all the time (can be found at the Crime Research Prevention Center): The US is a very safe place. Half of all the US counties average zero murders any given year. 25 percent of the counties have only 1 murder a year. And 70 percent of all the murders occur in just 3 percent of the counties.

The psychologist Steven Pinker wrote a book called 'The Better Angels of a Nature'. In it, he catelouges the history of human violence. He concludes that human beings are steadily becoming less violent.

Just think of the mass brutality in the history books. The first 100,000 years of human beings consisted mostly of brutality, tribalism, and murder. When a tribe met a different tribe at their water hole, it always ended with mass genocide. The average lifespan was about 25, and up to half of all deaths were violent deaths.

Now look at antiquity. Civilizations formed, but still the brutality was unimaginable. Think of how blood thirsty the Romans were, with their slavery, murder, and gladitorial combat.

Going into Medieval history, the bloodshed never stops. Read about leaders like Vlad the Impaler, and the mass atrocities that were the norm. Believe it or not, in terms of everyday violence, the 'norm' for most humans that walked the earth was closer to living under ISIS than it is to living in our society today.

Now, we live in a society where murder is rare (~4 per 100,000 in the US). Violence happens, but no where near the scale that humanity is used to. Theres even evidence that non-human primates are becoming less violent.

I understand your sentiments---but I think a big picture look is worth taking too.
 
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I think a major component is mental health / mental illness. The suicide rate has been increasing. I think I saw a statistic it is up over 20% in the last 20 years or so.

Teen suicides get a lot of attention and, of course, are extremely tragic. But when you look at raw numbers it's middle-aged and older adults, and even worse than that, middle-aged and older white men, who are killing themselves. And something like 20+ vets kill themselves every day. (Lot's of 20s in this post, which makes me wonder if I'm recalling these rough numbers correctly. But I think I am.)

I wonder if these tragic, highly publicized events have become a way for someone who feels helpless and inadequate to depart while getting in a last "I'll show them!" statement.
 
It's true that in earlier times of history violence and bloodshed was rampant, even considered normal. Then in the 20th century it was done by proxy on an industrial scale - between Communist leaders and fascist leaders millions were murdered in their names. Stalin and Hitler didn't pull the trigger, but their policies and leadership were responsible for millions of deaths.
 
We cannot control other people's behavior, we can only control our own. But that's no longer fashionable. It's always someone else's fault, we're told. Violent-minded people need to man up and look inside themselves. Victims need to stop making excuses for their attackers - white privilege, black victimhood, American "imperialism," prescription drugs, a bad childhood... No, it's you. You chose to hurt someone and you can choose not to.
 
I think much of it has to do with publicity. 40 years ago we didn’t have mass shootings and other mass violence like we do today, and I think the reason why is the idea of it wasn’t on the minds of crazy people because it didn’t happen the day before. Put any crazy & violent thoughts out there for everyone to read, and out of 300+ million people, someone will act on it. If mass shootings got zero publicity, my sense is they would not happen. So in a twisted sort of way, mass shootings are done for the media, and for the mass consumption of that news. It’s become a self-perpetuating loop of cause and effect. And there's no way to end it shy of total control of the press and Internet content, so it's here to stay.
 
While I believe mental issues play a role in all this, there are so many other parts that are in the mix. I have always felt that in many cases, it is up to the person to take hold of their life, and be accountable for their actions.
I grew up in a home life filled with violence and substance abuse. But as a young man, i made sure the direction my life would take was not to continue the circumstances of my youth. I did not use my past as an excuse for future bad behavior, but as a reason not to act out. So my wife and child would not ever see what i lived with.
Haven't had a single drink for 30 years now (quit before our daughter was born), as I know alcohol played a huge part in what i went thru in my youth. Not ever preaching to others, just noting what choices I made to keep control. Just one of the decisions i made to keep my life on the straight and narrow.

Yes society can play a part in helping (to a degree of course), from proper laws to medical help. But we as a race need to step up and be responsible for ourselves and those around us.
It's a scary world out there; I dont have all the answers, but sure worry about what it will be like not just for us all "today" but for my grandson and his future.

If someone truly needs help, then we should get it to them. If someone does not want the help, or continues their violent path; no reason for them to be out where they can harm others.

all just my .02
 
Whitman had a 30 carbine.

There have been many many more mass shootings. More then people tend to recall.

The guy in the 50s who killed the people in his neighborhood with a Luger.

A teenage girl in the 70s who killed a bunch of people because it was Monday and she didn't like Mondays.

Those are just two I can think of



There is no ONE answer. People have always been violent and will always be violent. It seems worse now because everything is recorded and reported half a second after it happens and makes it's easy around the world in another 1.2 seconds
 
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What I notice in the so-called civilized Western societies is an increasing reluctance to accept that, sometimes, stuff is out of your control. We see a lot of "if I can't have her, nobody will!" and "the kids are better off dead than without me in their lives" type killings. In these circumstances it is because the killer refuses to countenance the fact that things have not gone their way, implying a lack of control.

You will notice the word "control" appears twice in the above paragraph. Well, that's because it is a big thing in modern society and especially here in the US. Within six months of getting here 20 years ago, I had heard the word control more than in in the previous 35+ years of my life. I raised this with a US born co-worker. He laughed and made two comments.

1) "You catch on quick".

2) "Control isn't everything to many Americans, it's the ONLY thing".

From 9/11 on US society has had to deal with the concept that we are not in control at all times. The adjustment to that fact will be long and continue to be painful for many, and a few will lash out with violence. You can throw in the recent lack of the expected "instant gratification" during the economic recovery (such as it is) as another trigger on top the control thing.
 
In a broader sense, certain elements of society have pushed the idea that nobody is abnormal, no one should be stigmatized by labels like "insane" or "mentally ill." So gradually we've been forced to accept all manner of behavior as "acceptable" and if we disagree we're called vicious names.

If we went back to locking up crazy people to keep them away from the rest of society, instead of throwing drugs at them and assuming all will be well, we might have fewer heinous crimes.
 
As "American1776" mentioned. The violence in a country of 300+ Million humans is really not that bad. There are vast areas where the rate is at or near zero. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would live on the south side of Chicago. But people do???

And as "vt_shooter" brought up. I do think that a solid week of 24 hour air and newspaper coverage almost promotes some of the more prominent acts of violence. By showing people with mental issues how to go out with a big splash.

Larry
"A gun is like a parachute.
If you need one, and don't have one,
you'll probably never need one again."
 
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