Virgin reloader

[dcxplant]

OCD1,
Good point thank! I was planning on loading light loads, not full magnum at first. The Winchester Large Pistol primers I picked up say “for standard or magnum” so I figured I’d get magnum cases so as to not have to keep track of special vs magnum and load them lighter. I’ll check Berry’s website, and see what they say for maximum fps, thanks.

[edit] What Berry had to say about their plated bullets:
"Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities."

Matsu,
Thanks! All I could get locally in stock was the Speer and Lyman. I’ll order that on Amazon, I’ve heard many people suggest it on other threads too.

ArchAngelCD,
For me, this is the most mystifying aspect of reloading…Powders. I am in awe at the choices. I picked 4227 because it was in the tables of both manuals I bought, and I need to build experience with loading safely. Right now I’d be happy that I produce safe ammo that goes “bang” when I pull the trigger without mishaps, misfires, or the dreaded “click-bang”.

Community knowledge is very important, and I appreciate all of the help for me to utilize a "best practices" approach to reloading!

 

[Rule3]

OCD1,
Good point thank! I was planning on loading light loads, not full magnum at first. The Winchester Large Pistol primers I picked up say “for standard or magnum” so I figured I’d get magnum cases so as to not have to keep track of special vs magnum and load them lighter. I’ll check Berry’s website, and see what they say for maximum fps, thanks.

[edit] What Berry had to say about their plated bullets:
"Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities."

What, you didn't believe me??

The Win Primers are great for Mag or not Mag. The "problem" if you will with the Berrys bullets for revolvers (they are fine bullets, I have shot thousands of them) is there is not crimp groove for revolver loads, so you either have to apply a very light roll crimp to avoid cracking the plating or use a taper crimp. My revolver dies only roll crimp. If you load heavy recoil 44 Mag loads without a good crimp the bullets may move in the cylinder and cause the gun to lock up.

So what to do if no taper crimp?? I just crimp until it dents the bullet. Do you have a inertial bullet puller (mistake hammer)
You can crimp some without primers and powder and determine how much it has grooved the bullet.

And do tell us about your "first time"

 

[Skip Sackett]

Ever do any of your work on those F-14s in Iwakuni? I was there in 1974-1975. Just wondering.

With your mechanical aptitude you will do fine with an RL550B. It isn't really a progressive press. It is a manually advanced turret, kinda. I know, whatever!

What are you going to be shooting the 40S&W in? That is a question that I would like to have answered. The calibers you have are not that difficult to load BUT the 40S&W in certain firearms can be trouble.

I have loaded it successfully for several years. I did have one KB, but that was the fault of some data I used, really.

Using the press as a single stage is a good idea to start with. With the RL550B, seeing that you are the advancing mechanism, should you forget to do that, you could end up with a double charge pretty easily. Use a powder that fills the case pretty well with a single charge and you will readily notice a double charge. If in doubt, use the puller!

Enjoy, and be safe. Now all you have to get involved in is casting your own bullets. Then you will be in reloading bliss!

 

[M29since14]

4227 is a good place to start loading the 44 Magnum - hard to get in too big of a mess with that one, but the comments about the bullets lacking a crimp groove are something to take note of. The bulk Winchester and Remington 240-gr jacketed bullets would have been a better place to start, but of course a bit more money.

You might concentrate your efforts on the 44 Magnum and get some experience with it before you go on to .40SW. First, for a beginner, there will be a certain added confusion in working with two very different types of cartridges. The 44 is the easier of the two to work with, for me.

Once you get things going your way with the 44, and you have developed confidence in your ability, then the .40 can come along, and in the meantime, you will not have wasted a lot of money if you continue shooting the .40 because factory cartridges are not that expensive.

For the .40SW, you definitely want another powder. I am particularly fond of HS-6, but there are many good ones. Some of the other popular choices are 231 / HP-38, Unique, AA #5, Winch. Super Field, Longshot, and so on. A medium speed pistol powder (4227 is slow) seems to work best in the various high-pressure auto pistol cartridges like 9x19, 40, and 10mm.

 

[PALADIN85020]

4227 is a good place to start loading the 44 Magnum - hard to get in too big of a mess with that one, but the comments about the bullets lacking a crimp groove are something to take note of. The bulk Winchester and Remington 240-gr jacketed bullets would have been a better place to start, but of course a bit more money.

You might concentrate your efforts on the 44 Magnum and get some experience with it before you go on to .40SW. First, for a beginner, there will be a certain added confusion in working with two very different types of cartridges. The 44 is the easier of the two to work with, for me.

Once you get things going your way with the 44, and you have developed confidence in your ability, then the .40 can come along, and in the meantime, you will not have wasted a lot of money if you continue shooting the .40 because factory cartridges are not that expensive.

For the .40SW, you definitely want another powder. I am particularly fond of HS-6, but there are many good ones. Some of the other popular choices are 231 / HP-38, Unique, AA #5, Winch. Super Field, Longshot, and so on. A medium speed pistol powder (4227 is slow) seems to work best in the various high-pressure auto pistol cartridges like 9x19, 40, and 10mm.

The powder measure on the 550 and other Dillon presses measure most accurately with ball powders. For the .44 maggie, Win. 296 and its Hodgdon twin H110 work exceptionally well. These are a slow burners like Alliant 2400, so it's best to use magnum primers. They are also about ideal for the .357 magnum and the 41 magnum.

John

 

[Skip Sackett]

The powder manufacturer determines what primers to use for their powder, not the measure.

At any rate, H110/W296 (which is the exact same powder) is a WONDERFUL powder for both the Dillon measure AND the 357Mag with heavier bullets.

Small flake powders, such as the "dot" powders from Alliant and the IMR powders, SR7625 & SR4756, work equally well in the Dillon powder measure. Larger flake powders and extruded rifle powders can be a pain but there are ways around that too.

FWIW

 

[dcxplant]

OCD1,
Suuuuure I trust ya!

Roger on the crimpage… I checked into the Dillon .44 die set I have and evidently it features what they call “Accu-Crimp”. For light revolver loads a shallow set die yields a roll crimp and for heavier loads a deeper set die yields a roll-crimp, pretty kewell! If you or anyone else has experience setting these Accu-Crimp Dillon dies on a 550B I'd like to hear about it.
I got the mistake hammer yesterday, the day is soon approaching I’ll use it, hopefully not too often.

Smith crazy,
I pasted through Iwakuni, but with F/A-18’s. We had gotten rid of the last of our F-4’s right before the WEST PAC tour, 1988. I wrenched on the J-79’s and GE-F404’s. Really the F404’s on the F/A-18 were like a Honda, just change the oil every once and a while, and swap out the motor at hot section time. Dang things ran forever, but the AMAD had a habit of eating generators… I did an engine change in less than a hour with a good crew with the -18, try that on an F-4 ha ha!!

M29since14,
Now that’s best practices material right there… For sure I will start on the 44 first. The powder choices are boggling. I’m just going to stick to the book recipes verbatim for a while.

For now I’m still digesting the intro sections to my manuals and checking out info on the component maker’s websites. I hope to make my first batch this weekend.

 

[Skip Sackett]

dcx,
Not a fly-guy so you are talking Greek to me! I was a Combat Engineer attached to the Air-Dales to make embarkation boxes for their moves! WES-17, MSSG-17.

At any rate, you have the skill set to do what you need to do with the Dillon. Just remember, you can end up with a real problem if you put JP5 in a multi-fuel 6 by. If you get my drift.

There is a way to hot rod rounds and there is a way not to.

The most reliable source I have found for firearms and ammunition that has been run to their max, is from Brian Pearce and his Handloader Magazine articles. Wolfe Publishing has a webpage and pdf files of the magazines. All of his loads are on LoadData.com too and that makes a nice data resource for those wanting the last "inth" out of their rounds.

I have a subscription to each. Well worth the money, in my opinion.

 

[GF1]

You've got some good advice here, would add a couple things. Be careful reducing loads with the slow powder you use; that can get you in as much trouble as too much. Follow a manual, be very judicious about setting up your powder measure and check charges frequently w/ a reliable scale, ensuring that you weigh enough that you get the extremes covered well within book standards. With the .44, be sure to roll crimp in a groove of the bullets. I agree also with waiting on the 40 until you are proficient with the set up and process. I use progressives with shotshells, but not handgun cartridges (have done so since 1975).

The very light loads of fast powder - small charges - have the greatest potential for danger due to the possibility of double charges that you might not detect. The magnum loadings with medium to slow powder will overflow the case in a double charge situation (pretty good tip).

 

[Rule3]

One more thing as Skip was yacking about magnum powders and other stuff.

You have plated bullets so from your Speer or whatever manual you want to be using a low to mid range powder charge for FMJ data or some say use the lead data for a same weight. shape bullet. It just gets too confusing. So No H110 or 296 for these plated bullets

And no, 4227 is not a good choice for either bullet you have chosen. If you get "real" bullets for the 44 Mag OK but again not the plated as they are not Magnum rated.

 

[dcxplant]

GF1 and OCD1
Thanks! The powder component is the most confusing for me.

I am still in the process of reading the Speer, Hornady, and Lyman manuals. Each offers tidbits of very important information, I can't believe it takes so many manuals to get informed.....I won't proceed with loading until I get a clear understanding.

Also, each manual is quite different when it comes to testing. Lyman's uses a 4" barrel and Hornady uses a 7". Comparing them shows that similar amounts of powder are yielding higher fps in the Hornady manual vs the Lyman manual. I need to load the bullets I have under 1100fps per the manufacturer, but if I used Lyman's mid load at about 900fps that is from a 4", and my 6 1/2" would be higher-how much higher I don't know...so I'm glad I got advise to use more than one manual!

OCD1, I know you think these suck, but I can't afford to throw away $45, I'm already over my CFO's (wife's) budget. I've used up an extra two months of my "mad money", and my son's tuition payments crank up in August, so I've got to get set up by then for sure!!

I'm not too keen on blasting premium bullets at paper..... If I can safely shoot plated or lead, that will help. I really want to up the volume of my shooting. Is my logic completely off?

As to the 4227, it is listed in each of the three manuals, and Lyman's takes it down to 19.3 grains, the least of all the data. If that is listed, then it's safe, right?

For plinking I'll get 44 special cases so I can decrease the load. I was hoping to avoid having two sets of cases lying around, but now I know that loading too lightly can be as bad as loading too heavily.

A big THANKS to all the posts!

 

[growr]

Many will caution you on a double charge...the only time I have had this as a problem was when a spent primer impeded the forward travel of the primer arm.
In clearing the spent primer you have to raise the platform, in doing so you can easily have the casing in the powder station get a double charge.
If this problem presents itself be sure that you either take the casing out of the powder station or watch to make sure that the casing does not touch the belling rod which would activate another charge of powder.
If in doubt, remove the casing in the powder station and dump the powder back into the powder tube. and replace it so that you know it has a correct charge.
This doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
Randy

 

[Rule3]

GF1 and OCD1

OCD1, I know you think these suck, but I can't afford to throw away $45,

As to the 4227, it is listed in each of the three manuals, and Lyman's takes it down to 19.3 grains, the least of all the data. If that is listed, then it's safe, right?

For plinking I'll get 44 special cases so I can decrease the load. I was hoping to avoid having two sets of cases lying around, but now I know that loading too lightly can be as bad as loading too heavily.

A big THANKS to all the posts!

No Sir, I never said they sucked. I said they were fine bullets and have shot thousands of them. They are very good bullets and a very good company to deal with.

Yes by all means you can not waste them and need to shoot them

If you read on page #377 of your Lyman for the 44 Mag 240 grain, it says FMJ HP not plated. So do not confuse the two. They are not the same.

Using the data in Lyman of 19.3 lets call it 19.5 or so, yes I would load those with IMR 4227 and you should be fine. Probably a bit dirty but you clean your guns anyway, yes?

I would still get another powder to start off with. I like HP 38/Win 231 (same exact powder) for just about any handgun load. No it's not a real full house magnum powder but it is very versatile. For the 40 SW it is very good.

You will use a lot less powder, get good performance and actually save money

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

I load almost every handgun caliber and can use it for everything from 32ACP up through 44 Mag and 45 Colt. No it's not the best for some but it is listed for them all.

Edit:

You may have thought I did not like Berry's bullets as I mentioned "real" bullets. By that I meant hard cast lead or regular FMJ as those can be cranked up to full magnum loads.

Plated bullets (Berrys, Rainer and others) came about as a cheaper alternative to FMJ as there is less copper and they are completely encased (bottom). The are excellent for the semi autos and for indoors where no lead is allowed. When they first came out they were cheaper then FMJ but now they cost the same if not more. They are also much more than lead. Their only drawback is for full magnum loads as they can not be crimped hard enough to prevent movement in the cylinder. For the 40 SW. 9mm etc they are great.

OK, I need to rest my fingers (hunt and peck) now.

 

[M29since14]

...but if I used Lyman's mid load at about 900fps that is from a 4", and my 6 1/2" would be higher-how much higher I don't know...so I'm glad I got advise to use more than one manual!

The old rule of thumb for this is figure about -50 FPS for each inch of barrel shorter than the specified length. With a magnum, you might adjust that to 70-80 FPS, or even 100 FPS with some powders.

Of course the big difference is in a solid or vented test barrel. The vented barrel supposedly simulates the effect of the barrel-cylinder gap in an actual handgun, and so is thought to deliver more realistic results than the plain barrel. Most manuals will specify if they used a vented barrel for the test data.

Your Berry bullets are fine for mid-range 44 loads, and while you might have better luck with HP-38/Win 231, you can burn up your 4227 with them as long as you don't push things too hard. I would aim for 1000 FPS or even a bit less.

You might skip the idea of using 44 Special cases in your magnum revolver. It seems like a good idea, and there is certainly no particular danger in it, but you will find the accumulation of crud in the last 1/8" of your magnum chambers to be a real hassle, particularly if allowed to build up without frequent and thorough cleaning. I would just use magnum cases for everything and avoid the bother.

Once you run through your bullets and the 4227 powder, you will have more experience and know more about what you might want to do with the next purchase. In the meantime, it is not a bad thing to be working with a powder like 4227 that will make it hard for you to double-charge. As I said earlier, it is a good place to start. Probably not what you will eventually settle on as a standard load, but a good place to start.

 

[fredj338]

GF1 and OCD1
Thanks! The powder component is the most confusing for me.

I am still in the process of reading the Speer, Hornady, and Lyman manuals. Each offers tidbits of very important information, I can't believe it takes so many manuals to get informed.....I won't proceed with loading until I get a clear understanding.

Also, each manual is quite different when it comes to testing. Lyman's uses a 4" barrel and Hornady uses a 7". Comparing them shows that similar amounts of powder are yielding higher fps in the Hornady manual vs the Lyman manual. I need to load the bullets I have under 1100fps per the manufacturer, but if I used Lyman's mid load at about 900fps that is from a 4", and my 6 1/2" would be higher-how much higher I don't know...so I'm glad I got advise to use more than one manual!

OCD1, I know you think these suck, but I can't afford to throw away $45, I'm already over my CFO's (wife's) budget. I've used up an extra two months of my "mad money", and my son's tuition payments crank up in August, so I've got to get set up by then for sure!!

I'm not too keen on blasting premium bullets at paper..... If I can safely shoot plated or lead, that will help. I really want to up the volume of my shooting. Is my logic completely off?

As to the 4227, it is listed in each of the three manuals, and Lyman's takes it down to 19.3 grains, the least of all the data. If that is listed, then it's safe, right?

For plinking I'll get 44 special cases so I can decrease the load. I was hoping to avoid having two sets of cases lying around, but now I know that loading too lightly can be as bad as loading too heavily.

A big THANKS to all the posts!

Don't make powder choice that tough. Look at the manual. Find the vel level you want to reach. Use a powder that gets you there w/ room to spare. DOn't push a powdre to max to reach your vel goal, there is just too much risk of something going wrong.
Keep in mind that plated bullets are NOT jacketed bullets & actually load between a lead bulelt & a jacketed bullet. So you should be using lead data for your plated or the lower end jacketed data.
Also, all bullets are NOT plug & play. The shape of the bullet matters as to OAL & that matters as to pressures, especially w/ small vol/high pressure rounds like the 40. You can get into trouble very quickly w/ faster powders & heavy bullets.

 

[dcxplant]

Thanks so much everyone!!

I've spent the last two weeks reading several loading manuals as well as a powder book, perusing these boards as well as various manufactures' websites. Whew! Talk about drinking from a fire hose...

I just finished my first batch of 100 44mag!!

Bullet: 240gr Berry's plated (they were cheap)
Powder: IMR4227
Primer: Winchester Large Pistol Std or Mag
Case: Winchester, new.

Half the batch with 19gr of IMR 4227 (moderate crimp)
Half the batch with 20gr of IMR 4227 (a bit more crimp)

I realize the powder is not ideal for the bullet, but it gets me into the fps range I need to stay within for the plated bullet with no cannelure, and a double charge overflows the case (don't ask how I know that) I really liked that Lee's manual listed the case volume and powder volume so a loader can see how full the case will end up. VERY helpful.

I am really curious as to how my crimping job will hold up.

I'm headed out this am to shoot it up in my new M29 6.5" as well as sight in my dad's old Mauser sporter in 308 for dear season, and sight in a newfangled Browning red dot style sight for my Ruger Mark III Hunter.

If all goes well 1000 rounds or more will be spent this weekend

 

[Skip Sackett]

Well, dc, have fun and be safe.

You MAY end up with some bullet jump if you can't put a good crimp on the plated bullet. That will lock up your gun and is not fun to clear, don't ask how I know that!

If it were me, I would use jacketed for your first rounds. No restrictions to velocity, other than driving them too light can get them stuck. Most of them though have a cannelure and can take a crimp heavy enough to eliminate bullet jump. Besides, you aren't really loading for a 44Mag until you run that risk!

Semper Fi and be safe!

 

[dcxplant]

I agree crazy, I should have used jacketed. I bought the components before I knew how inter-related they were.

I'm new at crimping, especially plated bullets, so I derated the 1000-1100 fps loads recommended by Barry's (bullet maker) to gingerly test out my crimps.

I'm bringing my calipers to watch how the cartridges behave under recoil.

Happy 4th!

 

[Rule3]

I agree crazy, I should have used jacketed. I bought the components before I knew how inter-related they were.

I'm new at crimping, especially plated bullets, so I derated the 1000-1100 fps loads recommended by Barry's (bullet maker) to gingerly test out my crimps.

I'm bringing my calipers to watch how the cartridges behave under recoil.

Happy 4th!

An easy way to test beforehand is to take a round, bullet side down on a hard bench, put a padded rag over the base and push as hard as you can with the heal of your hand (the rag is so you do not indent your delicate skin.

Actually you should measure first and then measure after you push. If they are real loose you will feel and see the bullet move.

You can put enough crimp in the plated bullets to keep them from moving without really damaging them. Even if you do I just consider it a soft lead bullet then. Might not be real accurate but for range blasting does it matter??

Have fun, enjoy your handy work. Be safe.
It's pretty nice sending your first reloads down range!!