Visible Finish Damage to Guns For Sale

[brendonjames65]

I wanted to start this thread because I see this often. A seller of a gun has an optimistic view regarding the value of their gun when it has visible damage to the finish. I believe there are categories to this and I offer my subjective opinion.

Honest wear- Nothing wrong with this (IMO). As long as there is no corrosion/pitting, marring, etc… the owner may have put many miles on the gun with finish wear, but it's been well maintained, no rust, pitting and in excellent operating condition. Normal holster wear on the muzzle crown, cylinder and perhaps other areas depending on the gun type.

Pitting, corrosion (visible rust), marring, etc…. Not normal wear. Honestly, I find this to be unacceptable. It tells me that the owner did not properly maintain this gun and is a red flag to me, and I will automatically bypass if it's for sale unless I feel a restoration or refinish may be in order due to the rarity of the gun but I'd want a substantial reduction in the asking price.

I never had a weapon in my possession rust in either my service in the marines, my 25 years in law enforcement, or a lifetime of hunting including many backcountry and a couple wilderness pack trip hunts. Bottom line to me, if there is a visible flaw to the finish, not normal wear but due to negligence and the seller can't or won't correct it prior to listing for sale, they should expect a substantially reduced offer but many get offended!?

Just curious if fellow forum members have a similar view.

 

[LVSteve]

As a milsurp collector, I cannot be picky all that often. I have a "retentive" friend who claims to like milsurps, but his nature means that he cannot leave them as found. I swear that it's only my threats to kidnap his dog that have kept him away from the polyurethane aisle at Home Depot.

 

[AJ]

As a milsurp collector, I cannot be picky all that often. I have a "retentive" friend who claims to like milsurps, but his nature means that he cannot leave them as found. I swear that it's only my threats to kidnap his dog that have kept him away from the polyurethane aisle at Home Depot.

Just start calling him Bubba! He might get the message. I have a category that I call "As Issued" for military surplus. It means just as in the condition as you would draw one from the armory to use. Maybe not real pretty, but very serviceable.

 

[LVSteve]

Just start calling him Bubba! He might get the message.

Oh, I've tried that. All I get is this confused/sad look followed by, "But, but, the blueing was thinned to nothing in places and there were dents in the wood and..." at which point anything else he says is drowned out by my screams of frustration.

 

[mchom]

I am good with honest wear. I avoid guns that are pitted or show signs of neglect. Especially if they are more recent vintage.

 

[Sevens]

To the OP:

You write this as if folks that offer guns are the same folks that willfully or neglectfully damaged the guns.

It's been my experience that MOST guns have passed through the hands of horse traders. It's stunning how many folks I'll ask a question and their response is "oh I don't know, I never shot it." On some forums they often list guns as "catch & release!"

Yeah, I don't really get it either, but that's our hobby. To call it prevalent would be a massive understatement.

 

[Narragansett]

I have a problem with misrepresentation of what you have for sale. I hate these guys that post pics, and no description. I write and ask them for their written description. If they tell me to look at pics, I move on.

I had one guy selling a M28 with an obvious filed forcing cone. What did he do about it, nothing. What did GB do about it nothing.

Gotta be careful

 

[mikerjf]

Some people like project guns, or want to experiment. It really just comes down to appropriate price for condition, and that's in control of both parties.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

. . .

Just curious if fellow forum members have a similar view.

At least one does. Buggered screws are the very first turn-off, although they are, or in the past were, usually easily replaced. Even fixed is OK by me.

However, even a mistreated gun can be functional, although one should never pay much for it. My hangup on buggered screws is pretty strict, though.

I do have a $50 C*** Match Target Woodsman, second series, with serious unrepairable cosmetic issues. But no buggered screws (there's only one screw, a grip screw, anyway).

 

[NewLiberty]

I see a lot of used guns, in all sorts of conditions.

I think as long as issues are disclosed, and the items are fairly graded, and priced appropriately for the grade, there is no issue selling a firearm in any condition.

The issue tends to come when issues aren't disclosed, or when the seller and buyer disagree on the grading, or the appropriate price for an item of a particular grade.

 

[Ματθιας]

I'm like LVSteve, I'm a milsurp and police trade collector and rarely buy new, so I'm used to seeing all sorts of bumps, bruises, scuffs, scrapes, pits and even active rust. None of that stuff bothers me.

As far as descriptions, sometimes, most of the time, sellers don't know the history of what they're selling. They've likely, not fired it. I can't depend on them. Give me LOTS of good pictures and I'm happy. I don't want the seller to "correct" anything. I want it as is.

Like the saying goes, buy the gun, not the story.

 

[deadin]

Sometimes the condition can add to the allure of a gun.
The attached picture shows a .44 DA Frontier that is finish challenged, but is as tight as the day it was born.

I got the gun from the daughter of the original owner who said that it had been hung on a hook in a chicken coop on a ranch in Eastern Montana in the early 1900's. (Used by her Pa to deter coyotes and other vermin looking for an easy meal)

I suppose I could have it refinished, but then I would lose the story (and a bunch of $$) and just have another pretty gun, but no character.
(It letters as being shipped to Monkey Wards in Chicago in 1900.)

 

[AJ]

I am a sucker for snubbies, even ones that have been abused. I will clean them up and repair any problems (but no refinishing). I picked up a Colt New Service made in 1916. Someone had shorted the barrel and refinished with a brushed nickel finish. Also had changed the caliber from .455 to .45 Colt. I have cleaned it up as best as I can and gave it new shoes. After adjusting the front sight it shoots very well at 7 yards.

 

[Brian Parrish]

It is just business. If it is a seller's market, he does not have to listen to anyone complain about the finish. A buyer's market is the opposite. I have never bought anything that wasn't the most wonderful example of perfection since smokeless powder. I have never sold anything that was worth, at first, half of my asking price. The real problem to me is that there is no protection either to buyer or seller at the big auction site. When product is bought from an electronic catalog, there must be a clear and generous return/refund policy.

What is the difference between bluing that has been worn away from hot gases at the muzzle and cylinder gap, and bluing worn away there by a leather holster?

Sorry to say that I have rusted guns before, but not to the point of pitting. My 457 rusted in a belly band holster from my sweat in jus a few hours time. That pistol is notorious for having thin bluing on the slide.

 

[AJ]

It is just business. If it is a seller's market, he does not have to listen to anyone complain about the finish. A buyer's market is the opposite. I have never bought anything that wasn't the most wonderful example of perfection since smokeless powder. I have never sold anything that was worth, at first, half of my asking price. The real problem to me is that there is no protection either to buyer or seller at the big auction site. When product is bought from an electronic catalog, there must be a clear and generous return/refund policy.

What is the difference between bluing that has been worn away from hot gases at the muzzle and cylinder gap, and bluing worn away there by a leather holster?

Sorry to say that I have rusted guns before, but not to the point of pitting. My 457 rusted in a belly band holster from my sweat in jus a few hours time. That pistol is notorious for having thin bluing on the slide.

I have a friend that is a dealer and he uses Gunbroker.. He takes very detailed pictures and writes an honest narrative. He does not want buyer coming back on him saying he did not disclose something. For him it is a **** shoot as he starts most if not all his auctions at $0.01. One in a while he loses some money, a few times he breaks even and most of the time he makes money.

 

[mtgianni]

I bought a gun with pitting on it from G Broker. The story was it was from an estate where the gun sat for 18 months before it was looked at. I was the only bidder and now have a 4.25" S&W model 69 44 Magnum with some pitting around a replaceable shroud. Price was $379.

 

[LVSteve]

I bought a gun with pitting on it from G Broker. The story was it was from an estate where the gun sat for 18 months before it was looked at. I was the only bidder and now have a 4.25" S&W model 69 44 Magnum with some pitting around a replaceable shroud. Price was $379.

Sounds like the Mauser collection from down South that went to auction in 2020. All the photos were badly taken and everything looked like it had at least six months of dust on it. Bids were suitably low, partly because it wasn't always obvious what we were looking at.

 

[2152hq]

It's been a long time since I've bought a gun over the net.
I prefer to handle it and see it first hand. No surprises that way and no blaming poor pictures hiding flaws.

But with that said, yes I do buy guns with flaws (rust, pitting, missing parts, mechanical issues, cracked stocks, bad bbls, etc...)
They are projects to me. I work on them and make them all better again.
I don't and won't pay for condition if I can find one with less that is in the same mechanical condition. I'm likely going to re-do it anyway and even if I don't, some worn bluing or a bit of pitting isn't going to detract from the usefullness of a lot of the guns anyway.
They still work just fine and and you get a lot of use and enjoyment out of them. Or you can go full house restoration or custom job on it and build anything you like on one.
No Safe Queens are generally found around here.

 

[hkcavalier]

I will point out a refinish over pitting every time as no gun shop I've ever been in accounts for it in their price. I've probably been lied to more often about this than anything else. "Hey it came from the factory that way." Sure.

Honest wear gives me something to dicker about though, but again it rarely works. I just don't see many gun shops willing to negotiate anymore.

 

[steelslaver]

Jim's home for wayward S&W with issues